Ive noticed how on steam there is an update every week that patches some things and creates new bugs for others. Won had an update a year and that one was SOLID. Now which one do u think you would choose if you could of chosen (considering that all servers went back on WON)

they both have there ups and downs. ive accually had more problems with won than steam so i choose neither

Well I think that it's good to have both cause if something goes wrong with steam then you have the choice of won servers. Like when steam was first updated and everyone was having problems or it wasn't working but still wanted to play at least there is another choice won servers to play on until the problems were fixed. But just like steam even won had it's problems . . . on some servers you can't use mortar cause it will cause the server to crash. But other than that problem I don't seem to have any problems playing on the won servers . . . and even on the steam servers except now and then with updates there might be a new problem after an old one was fixed.

just think HL2 will be on steam :twisted:

I wonder if that's a good thing or a bad thing? :?

A good thing, Valve will stop letting their 5 year old children do the steam updates and actually do something themselves =D

What i am frustrated about is that they get payed. If it was free then i would understand but they get payed and still work with their feet. It is unnaceptable for valve to let other peeps to their stuff. Cough CZ Cough*

WON ALL THE WAY!!!

i prefer steam mostly as arty works, or is it just that that the armory somwhow fixed this 2.8 won bug ?

STEAM SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

HL2 HAHAHAHA say that again man, i havent laughed that hard in ages.. like that will ever come out.

steam is the futurewon is the pastbesidesI'd rather download small updates every week than a few 100+ meg updates every few months and having to wait weeks upon weeks for a bug fix to get released instead of hoursso, yeah, steamif you can't get steam working now, with all the FAQ's, tutorial's, and the over half million people who got it successfully workingI won't continue on with that, but I know Klif will get it

It doesnt matter which one other people like but which one you like.I prefer steam because artys work.I also movved because my clan moved over to steam and i decided to stay with them ans then they broke up and i joined the Stars clan.

if you can't get steam working now, with all the FAQ's, tutorial's, and the over half million people who got it successfully working

 

I won't continue on with that, but I know Klif will get it

Yeah, I remember that as well.

 

I prefer Steam because we get the fast map downloads. It's nice to not have the map and just join a server and automatically download the map at high speeds. WON had map downloads, but they were awfully slow. Personally, I don't have any issues with Steam, so I don't know what you people are talking about. And my computer isn't top of the line, so I don't see it as a big resource gap between WON and Steam. It's all about the software. Just like any other software, programs interfere with other programs from time to time. They're easy to resolve if you actually put some effort into researching instead of hoping for someone to hand you the solution on a silver platter. I do what the instructions say and if there's still a problem, there are plenty of troubleshooting guides to find through a Google search. I've solved all my problems and I'm a dope, I'm sure you intelligent guys and gals can figure this stuff out.

exactly hayathe new download feature really has sped things upand steam continues to get better

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!All the way WON!

It appears that Valve doesn't care about releasing quality updates nowadays because every update causes new problems for my computer. There is always this one update that works well and then the update comes along and ends the fun with new bugs. I think Steam was released too early.....

I wonder why they keep updating that thing, i mean HL is like 6 years old, you think that after 6 years there would be no more patching. So they only patch fore Steam, But steam worked fine fore me a looooong time, untill now with those stupid steam resets

This was the post coming from the CMF forums, about WON dying later this summer (i believe). Here it is, because it was a damned good post, and represents my feelings about STEAM/Won pretty much to the penny.

 

If we look at this seriously and with a little bit more of an objective perspective I think most woes with valve can be done away with.

 

Won was simpler.

Won was cleaner...

Won was quicker....

 

 

 

That it was. WON was a piece of work I'll tell you that. The netcode that it had was incredibly simplistic and nothing short of almost pure genius. The system was fast, responsive and stable but none the less, simple. WON was becoming outdated even if we didn't see it. It was built for a world where 56k dominated the ISP market. The netcode was aggressive at best when it came to bandwidth and network routing. This hindered WON severely when it came to bigger pipes and much more open connections. You'd see people with a 190 ping when they should, in reality, ping at 50-100 at least! With bigger pipes also came WON's inability to handle large and multiple data packets at once. A server trying to keep WON updated and still handle clients would many a time have to wait instead of it being the other way around. This would cause loss, which was a generally accepted thing back then, but with the bigger pipes came bigger expectations and due to WON's simplicity, WON could never deliver no matter how many patches Valve added. Both the server and the netcode of everything that interfaced with WON had to be compatible and due to WON's inherent netcode restrictions, caused the players to suffer with optimized, but utlimately outdated code.

 

 

Yeah, no bugs at all. Oh, Except i could send you viruses over the WON system. Oh, and take any servers rcon password. Oh yeah, i could also DDoS you via the WON system.

Indeed problems like those did exist. Valve never expected HL to take off like it did nor did they anticipate the cleverness of modern crackers so like most software developer horror stories go, Valve was left out of the loop for the longest of times and is sadly, still playing catch up.

 

The DoS(Denial of Service attack. All this does is boot your ass from WON.) attack issue was fixed as were the deals with sending unwanted files on the client to client deal, but the server side of those issues were never fixed, they couldn't be. This stems back to compatibility with WON and HL, simple systems are more often than not, less secure. In theory a server admin could download files to a client's computer that contained viruses, but that was rare in itself and also required an admin to hand do it or write a complicated script to do it for them. Taking a server's rcon password was also fixed. In this case we see the traditional trade off paradox, do we give up performance for security or security for performance?

 

Steams technology isn't the greatest, no. I won't claim it is. Imo, they put too much effort into the "bells and whistles" than the actual product. However, Steam also has more 'good' characteristics than WON does IMO. I mean, when an update comes up; at least you don't have to wait 8 months before a fix is out. You just have to wait...a day? two days? And if you wanna see something real quick...use the 'offline version' of steam. It won't go off and try and download anything.

Just a quick note on this one. The fact that any updates to client code restricted you from playing on updated servers was normally a big hint that it's update time. Also in my experience and serious bugs in WON were always server side, thus there was never a need to make many updates available to the client. Steam on the other hand is still in development and requires constant client updates as time goes on, thus the amount of updates you download, in this case, can be good and bad.

 

Yeah, Das? No. WON Pwned steam because steam is basically biased against DialUp users. i played FA at 80 FPS on WON with 56k, and on steam with Cox@home Cable running at about 400kbps, i get 39!!!

Good point but that still wont make me change my mind and untill steam is at the level WON was not a lot of people will. Not everyone here can afford top of the line computers and i for one cant, why should i have to suffer a 40 FPS drop because Valve needs to be greedy and advertise their crap fro HL2.

Steam in it self may be responsible for some minimal FPS loss but the fact that the HL engine is still there, untouched I might add makes this seem a bit farfetched. Steam was all network and management code, no engine work was done.

 

Now for the Steam part...

 

Steam was a huge huge huge network revamp of all of HL's netcode. It was designed from the start to be scalable and powerful, and that's what it is. The Steam network allows for a higher level of security, faster access, and a whole new authorization subsystem that rivals Microsoft's .Net framework IMO. The netcode behind Steam is more than just good, it's fucking incredible.

 

Ping rates were restored, bandwidth was used right, the network is no longer so open as WON was, the protocol is quite efficient and there's still room for improvement! Holy shit! Steam was a step in the right direction for prolonging the stay of HL in the multi player market as well, turning a once secluded network, designed only for game play, in to one hell of a community. But...just like WON, as the paradox often goes, security over performance or performance over security?

 

Steam chose security.

 

The client...

 

Steam client sucks the balls of off Microsoft, and that's pretty bad in my books. It was unstable, buggy and overall a premature release. This wouldn't of happened but once word got out, though, that Valve was designing Steam, the wonderful Internet community took to pressuring Valve every waking moment to finish it. This in turn brought out the product with out any serious revision and testing. People were crashing left and right! This little bit is not uncommon on the internet and was expected by many people...

 

Steam's master flaw though stems from the fact that Valve pulled a Microsoft. Modify existing code to new technology. This hit them hard when the program left their clean, safe testing environments. The Steam master servers couldn't keep up with the corrupted data packets and the almost overwhelming flood of other shit from the poorly designed clients so in nutshell, they barfed. Every week at least. Given time though Valve worked out major issues and the network became more stable as time went on.

 

Steam's game management system is a rework of the HL GUI systems and is nothing short of a pain in the ass for old HL'ers like myself, but to new players, it's a refreshing way to play a rather ubiquitous game online. It's meant to be simple yet usable and it is just that, nothing more. By making something simple though you loose power in some way, leaving things to be wanted most of the time. Alas, though, in a market worldm the needs and wants of the few are always outweighed by the paying many who have yet to come in and play.

 

The keyword with Steam was compatibility, still is. HL2 will integrate, hopefully, seamlessly in to Steam. This could mean that Valve intends to release other Steam compatible games as well but that's another thing entirely...

 

I'm not saying the don't have a long way to go but any way you look at it, it's still the right way to go. Given time Steam will surpass WON in almost every way

Posted by Zinic, on the CMF forums....

STEAM ROX

Nice post. Steam > WON

It is true the ideea of steam is very interesting. And ofcourse it should in theory be way more powerfull. But....Theory is one thing and facts are another. Steam is a really buggy network that makes 90% of the users too have problems with it at one point or another in time. If it didnt have the major client bugs it would actaully be really nice. Updates directly from the software etc... But it isnt so. And for the days that are left for steam in existance i will not like it because of just that. It was a amature piece of software and like u said it got released prematurely. This drags on forever. Same goes for microsoft. They released sweet software with allot of problems. And in my mind microsoft is a sh***y company. That wont change even if they get the coolest thing on the market.

But I've tried everything, Steam just makes the game go back to desktop but thats all. Its getting annoying.

god i never had 1 single problem with won, then theres steam which blows soo much ,and also crashes all the time, i mean even there lil buddy list never works for me lol i mean come on now ,

Gen.ManoWar] Steam is a really buggy network that makes 90% of the users too have problems with it at one point or another in time.

WON, too, had it's problems. 90% of people who used WON also had problems - But everyone just decides to forget about them because, well, STEAM bashing is just the thing to do now. :roll:

It's newer, bigger, better technology. With newer, bigger, and better technology, also comes newer, biggerd, harder-to-control bugs. It's expected with any update. I believe STEAM also eliminated a large ammount of the hackers - Not all of them, but alot of them. Very good thing, anytime. I think if VALVe did some minor tweaking to Steam - Like, making it a 3rd party program, that wasn't required to be in use, but you could only get updates from using STEAM (and servers would be auto-updating via steam, too..) STEAM would be a much better program. I have very few/no problems with steam after the initial install procedure; and since then...it's been a pretty smooth ride. ALOT more stable than WON was; higher FTP, lower pings; and alot better server-side secuirty. As a server administrator, i don't see how STEAM is such a bad thing.