lol

-Okibi Hiryuu]It's been awhile since I've done one of these...

 

Yup....thats the same AK....I been busy.

 

http://www.fa-thearmory.net/albums/album02/AK_M_001.jpg

such a perty gun lol

-Flak Magnet]Just to set everything straight before i go on, my father owns a musket and a handgun, i want a .22, im not a gun nazi, now that some things have been explained to me Im more pro gun than i have ever been before. However, I still have some reservations about automatic weapons. Lets look at your little speech okibi:I see the logic in my statement and i saw it when I wrote it. First of all, your little hyperbolic analogy doesnt work at all. So you have to pay some extra tax for a weapon no one really needs (quick, give me a legit reason to own an automatic weapon beyond sport or "protection") , are you saying that you having your uzi for 200 dollars cheaper is worth even the potential of keeping a powerful gun out of some moron's hand? I mean, come on, its not the moral equivalent of nuking a neighborhood to kill a murderer because we are talking about taxing a weapon no one of the constitutional framers ever imagined exsting and a weapon that has no real application out side of the military and police forces.

Why do I need any other reason than sport or "protection"? And I consider putting up with ANY amount of injustice, wrong. Besides, I hardly think the tax stops many criminals, do you think they are going to go and PAY for they're guns? Or even Register them?

To use some hyperbole here, your first statement could be used to justify people owning tanks, nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, or just about anything else. The government has the rightful power to make sure citizens to block anything it deems harmful to the people or to the republic. No matter what the statistics say, Im pretty sure some guy wielding a mass produced and easily available drum fed 12 gauge automatic shotgun in the middle of a crowd or using it to hold up a bank is a threat. These weapons according to the government have little if any reason to be in the hands of civilians, therefore they will restrict them. Laws that limit these types of things arent just to be obeyed by only the good people as you put it, they are also ENFORCED by the government.

No, my statement does NOT justify people owning tanks, nuclear, and chemical weapons, as it only applied to automatic firearms. You didn't just take my statement too far, you leaped way out there. You know good and well there is no real use for those kinds of things other than killing VERY large numbers of people (or as a detterent for doing so).The government has NO power other than to pass and enforce laws put in place by the people and thier elected officials...even though it doesent seem that way most of the time.Then once again, you take my statements too far. Nowhere did I say I supported handing out automatic weapons at street corners, or selling them to anyone who asks. I do support certain restrictions, such as background checks, and registration for full auto, I simply don't think thier production should be banned, or should there by a manditory tax.

Ok, what does this have to do with anything? are you hiding something?

I was compareing the tax to basically punishing otherwise innocent people for something they havent done yet.

First of all, look at some of the leaders we have trusted ourselves to elect. Second of all, what about all the people who cant be trusted with FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. I know a lot of people at my school would love to get their hands on a Mac 10 or something, but scarcity of supply, black market costs, and government restrictions keep these idiots from owning a automatic weapon of some kind. By your logic, laws are completely useless and people will do what they do despite these laws. Well than fine, lets just have anarchy, its the same principle.

Those leaders would have never been put in place had this Government functioned as it was supposed to, and I'm not going further into that.Once again, I never said I wanted them being sold to anyone, I simply disagreed with the production ban, and the tax.

Still, removing the temptation to do something stupid (eg, making automatic weapons very hard to obtain) helps mitigate the possibility of someone making a bad decision and other people having to suffer because of this decision regardless of what consequences they may suffer in the end.

It is already illegal to rob banks, and brandish guns in public, that hasent stopped it from happening. What we need is better enforcement, not more laws. Which brings up another point, I'm also in favor of a national carry permit.

True, but there will still be a sharp increase of people going to buy themselves an SMG or something, and among all these people, there will be a greater amount of irresponsible people who plan to do stupid and potentially dangerous things with their gun than before the ban and tax were lifted.

Of course there will be an increase, as they are not being produced at the moment. That and not many can afford the $6000+ to get one.Those same stupid people can still do stupid things with a semi-auto, a shotgun, or a large truck. Registration will get rid of most of them, if that doesent stop them, hopefully law enforcement will.

i agree with a lot of this, however: What about laws that can be enforced? I would rather see someone arrested for owning an uzi illegaly than some one who owns one legally but gets arrested for using it illegaly. Further, I think the HOW and the WHY need to be pursued equally.

Yup, laws that can be enforced like the ones already in effect, such as registration and the laws regarding robbery and murder.

so how do you propose we solve this issue if civil law is ruled out as useless?

I didn't rule it out as useless, I ruled it useless without proper enforcement.

As a final point I would like to reiterate a couple things. First, Im only anti-widespread-availability-of-automatic-weapons, not anti-gun. Second, Im not trying to be openly hostile here, just having an engaging debate. Third, im for severly limiting automatic weapons, not completely banning them. Perhaps even small scale manufacturing of them for enthusiast purposes. Fourth, I claim no great knowledg of guns or gun control issues, i've made all my arguments off logic. If there is something i am way off base with, please correct me in a civil manner, i wont get all indignant.

I know I always like a good debate.

-Okibi Hiryuu]Why do I need any other reason than sport or "protection"?

ya don't... or ya shouldn't. 2nd amendment. nuff said.

the right to bear arms? i think thats the 2nd thing but not sure dun dun dun. i think that right is evile heh

-BulletFace]the right to bear arms? i think thats the 2nd thing but not sure dun dun dun. i think that right is evile heh

I dont think so at all, but im intrigued and i'd like to hear you're opinion. Why do you think the right to bear arms is evil?

i have a question about that right tho. is it just for home or can you like walk around the street with a gun cuz i think if you do that wont you get in trouble? lol

-BulletFace]i have a question about that right tho. is it just for home or can you like walk around the street with a gun cuz i think if you do that wont you get in trouble? lol

technically i outa be able to carry my Ak101 around in public and have it be perfectly legal. It says you have the right to "bear" not just "own" arms. And really "arms" means i could buy a tank. or a rocket. But of course the government did what its good at, and walked all over the amendment until the civilian population is now only capable of owning weaponry that in comparison to what is available to the military is really quite pathetic. In the event of some heathenist totalitarian faction seizing control of the government, the general populace is basically defenseless.(End of anti-gun control tangent)

um ok

Big words... how i love them so

what words do you consider big? i understood the whole thing but i didnt really know what to say to it so i just said um ok

Big words... u know... like.... BIG.

ok sure why not

i think im gona post somthin on this issue tommorow. with a poll n stuff. but not 2nite. im tired. nite.

dear god, i knew it, you are one of those crazy militia types commie. Im 100 percent positive that the framers of the constitution did NOT want people walking around with a frickin arsenal of military grade weapons. If we all just walked around with AK101's in our hands the scene would be a lot similar to that in Mogaidishu or kabul. Back when the constitution was created, military and civilian weapons were basically the same and they were necessary for frontier life, our current domestic situation renders a lot of the 2nd amendment dangerously obsolete, since the definition of "arms" has changed widely since 1787. Also, im pretty sure that our government wont become totalitarian anytime soon, one because our military wouldnt obey oppressive, unconstitutional orders, two, the NRA and all the hunters/hobbyists out there would easily comprise a large standing army. Some of those hunters out there are better than army trained snipers

No, I'm pretty sure the 2nd Amendment doesent say you can walk around town with your AK-101...And bear arms = own them...not walk around all day with themNow, I do believe that the framers of the constitution knew full well that technology would advance when they wrote it, do you really think they would be THAT short sighted?The 2nd is there as a sort of final check against the Government becoming tyrannical...I seriously doubt this will ever happen (I hope not), but having an armed populace is a nice deterrent.Other than that, it's mostly just hunting, sport shooting, and the fax machine I blew up this morning http://www.flashbunny.org/content/outdated.html

lol, blowing up fax machines is a gunh use of guns, though id rather use them on my computer

ok, that flashbunny thing got me. Good logic, cant dispute that. Thoughi never said the 2nd amendment should be limited to just muskets, that would be gay

-Flak Magnet]dear god, i knew it, you are one of those crazy militia types commie.

If only i lived in montana...

lol