April 14, 200521 yr Ok, yes this is a very long read, but, if you've ever worked in a call center *cough*likemerightnow*cough*, you would know every word of this is true. MSN Tech Support Seldom Asked Questions General Q: Who the hell are you and why are you writing this? A: I'm a level 3 tech, and I'm writing this because some truth needs telling. Q: Is MSN seperate somehow from Microsoft proper? Sometimes I get that impression talking to the techs. A: Your impression was correct, but for a very different reason entirely. The reality is that, except for a very small group of testers (The Microsoft Bench Team, who tell Redmond what kind of calls they receive on the floor as techs, and have no more power to help you than any other agents), the technician you are speaking to does not actually work for Microsoft. Instead, he works for such companies as ACS, Stream, Sykes, and Teleperformance. Under no circumstances will the person you are speaking to reveal that himself; that would get him fired. Q: WTF? I haven't heard of any of those companies. A: They're call centers. Instead of actually hiring people to man the phones itself, Microsoft has contracts with other companies. This arrangement is known as outsourcing. Q: So how much are they getting paid? A: Lower-level techs make a couple dollars over minimum wage. Tier 3 isn't being paid enough to care, either. Q: What tools are the technicians using? A: The primary tool every technician uses is something called PAM, Phoenix Account Management. This, like every other Microsoft product, is poorly programmed with a slow, buggy interface. So when the tech says "Your ticket number is.. uhh..", that tech has just clicked "Save Ticket" but his PAM is being too slow and may not give the ticket number for several seconds. On the Phone Q: Is the tech/rep just trying to get me off the phone ASAP? He's getting paid by the hour, right- why should he care? A: Because he is graded on something called Average Handle Time. The contracts drawn up by Microsoft and the outsourcing companies may vary, and are never shown to the techs on the floor, but one thing is true- it is always less efficient for the outsourcing company for its techs to take long calls. This is passed down to the techs in the form of AHT. Lower-level techs are usually much more concerned with AHT than higher-level ones. This is because higher-level techs are more apt to deal with long, complicated issues, thus their AHT is higher and not focused on quite as much. Q: Sometimes I get the feeling that there's something the tech really wants to say, but can't. A: You know how the recording says "This call may be recorded for quality purposes?" It often is. There are many things the technician may not say on the telephone- and if you're speaking to anything less than a level 3 tech, those may include solutions. They have to transfer you to a higher tier for that person to try the fix. You may think that's ridiculous, and it is. The reason hinges on AHT. Similarly, Level 3 agents are not allowed to call the phone companies for DSL issues themselves. Why not? It raises AHT and outbound calls cost money. Never mind what the benefit of that might be to you, the user. You are only a bit player in Microsoft and the outsourcing companies' grandiose play. Q: I think the tech was a bit perturbed at me. It showed in his voice. A: You must have really pissed him off. Call-center employees have two things preventing them from sounding angry: a general apathy towards you as a customer, and mental discipline preventing them from showing their emotions over the phone. If the technician shows in any way annoyed with you, he personally, fiercely hates you and would love to beat your head into the ground. Relax; five minutes after he gets off the phone with you, the technician will likely have forgotten who you were, except as a story to tell the other techs. Of course, if he didn't, your name, address, phone number, and e-mail address are all on his screen. And if it's a higher-level tech, he can read your email, too. And send it to your wife and kids. Better hit that Delete button now, Sparky. Q: Sometimes, when in a conversation with a tech that sounds a little exasperated or perturbed, he stops talking and the background noise cuts out, although I know I've got a good connection. What's going on? A: He hit the Mute button and is probably swearing at you. Example: "Okay, I want you to click Start, and then Run." (mute) "And then type in C:\SUICIDE\HangYourselfNow, you stupid ****ing *****." (unmute) "And then type in R as in Roger, E as in Elephant.." Q: Wow! Is it because he thinks I'm stupid? A: Actually, most people who call MSN tech support are quite stupid; smart people don't use MSN. Although Level 1 techs deal more with stupidity than anyone else (solving the simple issues caused by sheer stupidity and not escalating them), other levels get their share of idiots. You have to be genuinely, wholly, aggressively stupid for that to make a tech angry. Q: I told the tech that nothing changed, but I actually clicked on one of those popups that said "Date/Time Update" last night and now I'm getting all these ads. I would have told him, but I don't want to be embarrassed.. A: Do not, under any circumstances, lie to a technician, even if the tech is incompetent, even if you think he's lying to you. Techs are like doctors- you can't be embarrassed in front of them. Just tell the tech you goofed and put the malignant spyware on your computer, and the tech will at least try to get it off. Otherwise the tech will just say "I don't know what's wrong. Something in your operating system is malfunctioning." and ask you who your computer manufacturer is. Q: Why do I get this impending sense of dread when the tech asks me who made my computer? A: This is because the technician is probably going to refer you to your OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) to completely wipe and restore your computer. What this means is that your computer is so ****ed up that we can't even try to debug it, and the only way the tech knows how to fix the problem is for you to start from scratch. Better start backing up your files while you have the chance. Escalations Q: The tech I was talking to said he was going to transfer me to someone else, but I got him back instead, and he had more stuff for me to do. What happened? A: His escalation was rejected. The higher-level technician will gleefully reject it, lowering his average handle time (as it only takes a few minutes for him to reject the call) and avoiding dealing with you. Remember, most technicians would, given the choice, rather not talk to you. Q: Why did the higher-level tech ask me if we did certain things? Didn't the lower-level tech tell you what we did, or put that information in the ticket? A: This is because lower-level techs, trying to get you off their phones, will lie about what has been done in order to get an escalation. Thus, if you answer 'no' to an inquiry about what has been done (again, DO NOT LIE to a tech, no matter how much lying techs do!), the higher-level tech will probably report the lower-level tech for it. Q: Wow. I just spent half an hour with two techs trying to fix this weird-ass "Windows Logo Testing Error", and the third tech I talked to just had me type in ' regsvr32 softpub.dll ' and BAM, it was fixed! Why didn't the first guy just tell me this? A: Because that's outside his support boundaries. Q: Why is that? A: Who knows? Q: Exactly who is the Network Operations Center, why is something sent there going to take so long, and why can't I talk to them? A: The NOC is a small group of technicians that have special abilities and access to the guts of the MSN data servers themselves, not having to go through PAM. They actually get paid real money, and no tech is allowed to speak ill of them in the least; this can lose them points on call coaching. In fact, they are so highly esteemed that mere level 3 technicians must get permission, and follow a certain series of troubleshooting steps, just to escalate a ticket to them. If everything is not done, or everything is done but not documented to the NOC/Microsoft's satisfaction, the ticket will get rejected and you'll find yourself getting called back. This is why the tech is often being pedantic with you; he's just doing what he needs to do to have any chance of getting the issue fixed. The NOC is often very late in responding to issues, often leaving tickets open and ignored for far longer than the (ridiculously generous) ten-business-day deadline. Similarly, after that time, the L3 tech has no power to confront them directly; instead, he must post what is called a 10-day escalation form which the NOC is also free to ignore. The reason you cannot talk to them is because you are not worth their time. The kicker? They're outsourced, too.
April 14, 200521 yr Author Q: Wouldn't it be better for all concerned if Microsoft simply hired some Level 4 agents who we could talk to who have NOC-like powers and could fix the problems on the back-end over the course of a few minutes instead of weeks? A: Yes, but that's not how Microsoft does business. The purpose of the MSN tech support structure is to keep users away from people who can actually do things. There is no technical reason for this. Perhaps they just don't want someone accidentally revealing how ****ty their database actually is. E-mail Q: What the hell is HTTP email? A: HTTP email is mail which is not locally saved unless you choose to do it yourself, but instead is left on the webserver. With a POP3 mail account, the server stores your mail, and you download it. Q: There's really not that much difference. In fact, I've seen ISPs who have web interfaces for their mail, and I look at it at work before downloading it via POP3 at home. What's the big deal? A: There really is no logical reason. As a way to lock you into Microsoft products, it fails miserably; any Linux-wielding joker can program a Hotmail interface. It's just the way they want to do it, and if that means that your favorite POP3 mail client no longer works with their 'service', tough luck. Also, outbound port 110 is blocked on narrowband accounts, meaning that you can't directly get your POP3 mail on another ISP. Why? Because Microsoft doesn't want you to. Q: I've had POP3 for years, now I don't. I never wanted HTTP mail. What happened? A: You just had to get MSN 8, didn't you? It automatically 'upgraded' your account. What's that? You've been using Outlook 2000, which doesn't have HTTP functionality? Better go buy the latest version. Q: Doesn't this sort of migration cause large problems? A: Yes. There's a "Split Inbox" problem where MSN.com mail goes to the Hotmail account, and outside email goes to the POP3 account. Sometimes you can send email but not recieve it; sometimes you can receive but not send. Sometimes it's working half on Hotmail and half on POP3; sometimes it works half on Hotmail and the other half just disappears into the void. Q: I heard that MSN's been having big problems with email recently. What happened? A: In the interests of spamfighting, program was introduced that blocked every domain that was sending more than 50 emails to MSN customers a day. Q: Hey, wait- customers of other ISPs such as AOL, Earthlink, and... A: You've got it. Even military providers were blocked. And this happened around the 17th-18th of Februrary, a time when people were being shipped en masse to Iraq. Mothers and sons out of contact, servicemen wondering why their wives were sending them messages saying "Please respond! Are you okay?!" when they had just emailed them a few hours ago. All because some bonehead with too much access and too few brain cells decided to block mass mailings the only way he knew how. Every single one of those providers had to be un-blocked. Individually. After extensive L3 troubleshooting. By the NOC. They're still working on it as of this writing. Strangely enough, this still didn't stop the spam. Q: ****- my daughter was going to mail my free Hotmail account when she finally delivered her child.. A: Congratulations, Gramps. DSL Q: My DSL stopped working after I changed my phone company. A: You're ****ed. *******. Q: I've ordered two months ago and received nothing. A: Between the phone companies and Microsoft, it's easy for things to break. The phone companies aren't really under much obligation to make things work (as you aren't really 'their' DSL customer) and Microsoft has no liaison into the internal workings of the phone companies. What do you think happens? Orders get stuck in the gateway between Microsoft and your phone company. It gets set up on the MSN side but the phone company never provisions the line. The phone company provisions the wrong phone line and MSN thinks your service should be on the right one. You live in Colorado but the modem is sent to Portland. And no, errors are not automatically caught by the system, and nobody is tasked with looking over new DSL orders to make sure they're proceeding properly. You have to call. Q: Well, I'm back on dial-up as, after three weeks of this nonsense, they finally told me that I couldn't get DSL after all. But now I can't even connect through that. What happened? A: When your account was downgraded back to dial-up, you somehow lost your 'narrowband provisioning'. Of course it doesn't make sense. You'll be off the Internet for a week while the NOC circle-jerks on your account. Enjoy. Getting to the Boss Q: I asked to speak with a supervisor, but I could have sworn I was talking to the supervisor just the other day, only he was a tech. Do people get promoted quickly in this business or what? A: When you ask to speak with a supervisor, this is what is simply called a 'sup call'. Depending on the call center you get (as of this writing, Microsoft has no policy on sup calls, meaning it's up to the call center to deal with you), sup calls may get you a higher level technician, or you may get a 'supervisor' (just another technician) playing a 'non-technical' role trying to calm you down and send you back to the original tech. Under no circumstances will you get anyone technically classified as a boss. Q: But I want to speak to someone in charge! A: YOU CAN'T. Don't even try. It doesn't matter what you say or do- nothing is going to get you on the phone with the technician's actual manager. This is the way it should be; managers have better things to do than deal with complaining idiots, such as holding meetings, sending emails, micromanaging their employees' schedules, and playing FreeCell. Q: What kind of bull**** is this?! I run a business and... A: You run a ****ing business on MSN?! You dumb ****. Hey, asshole, do the words residential use only have any meaning to your thick, under-used head? In fact, the moment you even used the word 'business', you increased the tech's annoyance level a notch. By saying that you run your business on MSN, you have demonstrated four things: 1. You have not even cursorily glanced over the EULA. No one actually reads that monstrosity word-for-word, but one would expect- ahem!- a businessperson to be a little more conscious about that sort of thing. 2. Your 'business' cannot afford even a single real IT person and you are too stupid to actually find an ISP that handles business accounts. 3. Your 'business' is likely a "Home-Based Business" or MLM scam, making you the scum of the earth. 4. You believe that this makes you more important than anyone else, even though you're paying the same amount of money. If you "run a business" on MSN, you should be putting a gun to your head, not a telephone. Q: ...I need the problem fixed NOW! A: Ever see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? You're a bad egg and my incinerator's always on.. really, after reading the rest of this SAQ, you'll understand why complaining to the tech or his supposed supervisor will do you no good. Q: Okay, okay! I'm not like that. I'm not trying to run a business. I'm just a gamer, and I'm missing out on my Shadowbane beta. This thing's been languishing for weeks now and dial-up sucks. Just who do I have to call to get a fast, working connection? A: The MSN cancellations department (aka the SAVE desk, whose job it is to feed you bull**** and get you not to cancel), then another broadband provider.
April 14, 200521 yr Author Conclusion Q: So, in total, is MSN a good ISP? A: NO. By almost any standard, MSN is a horrible ISP. Serious dial-up ISPs and DSL providers have much more efficient service, no bloated software, and tech support that has the power to actually fix problems on their end without you having to wait a ridiculous amount of time. They need your continued business and generally act like it; this is where the term 'valued customer' comes from. MSN does not see you as a valued customer. MSN sees you as a tiny portion of their market share. With a cable modem or a big DSL provider, it's a big company, their tech support is also probably outsourced, and you're a tiny portion of their market share as well, but for some reason you're usually not going to get the same kind of bull****. This illustrates the core problem. The flaws are not inherent in the way that large companies work, or Q: But it sure beats AOL, doesn't it? A: Yes, it does, but that's not saying much. The Information Superhighway provides an excellent metaphor. In the fast lane of the highway are people in cable-modem sports cars and DSL drag racers. Burning down this electronic autobahn, these Low Ping Bastards zoom their packets to game servers and peer-to-peer networks, downloading whole movies chunk by chunk. High above are the people in truly ultra connections, the big-server cargo planes, and the occasional jet-setter with his own personal T3. That kind of power is out of reach except by corporations and the truly rich. In the slow lane are the narrowband users, the mass of bikes resembling Shanghai traffic. The technically inclined who cannot get cable or DSL go past on carefully-tweaked 10-speeds. The AOL users, in the slowest lane of all, are toddlers on plastic big-wheel tricycles, watching the world pass by as they struggle to make their tiny legs move their inefficient transportation, wondering why they left the giant AOL nursery to visit the wider Internet. Where do you fit into this? You are the dorky-looking 9 year old wearing cumbersome elbow and knee pads, the training wheels on your flimsy, gearless bike rattling as you struggle to keep the adults in view. Sort of brings new meaning to Parental Controls, doesn't it? MSN is the parent. You are the child. (With MSN DSL, things are a little better. You're in the driver's seat of an old, half-broken Yugo, and if you're running the software, with a cranky Driver's Ed teacher who has the passenger's seat brake pedal.) Q: Well, I got this $400 rebate on my computer but I have to have 3 years of MSN, so I'm kinda stuck.. A: WTF were you doing buying your computer there anyway? Any honest, small-time comp shop- or even the computer geek next door- would have sold you a real, custom-built puter, from standardized parts, for a fair price of parts + labor. Instead, you went and bought a proprietary piece of crap from Gateway, Dell, HP, Compaq, Emachines, or (God forbid) Sony. (They make much better game consoles than computers, trust me.) So not only are you shackled to an inferior connection, you're stuck with a wimpy machine that is nigh-impossible to upgrade or repair. But since you can't go back in time and correct your mistake, the solution is to make a connection in Dial-Up Networking with your username as MSN/yourusername (With no @msn.com part. And if you have a Hotmail email address, you can't do this.) and the phone number as simply one of the access numbers. (If you need to ask what goes into the Password field..) This will take off the useless pads and training wheels of the MSN software, although it's still a crappy bike. Q: How much of this is confidential information? A: About all of it, really. Q: If they find out who you are, won't you get fired? A: Actually, I'll also probably get sued, and the infamy will prevent me from getting another tech support job ever again. I no longer care.
April 14, 200521 yr Even military providers were blocked. And this happened around the 17th-18th of Februrary, a time when people were being shipped en masse to Iraq. Mothers and sons out of contact, servicemen wondering why their wives were sending them messages saying "Please respond! Are you okay?!" when they had just emailed them a few hours ago. All because some bonehead with too much access and too few brain cells decided to block mass mailings the only way he knew how. ....i just found that really disturbing a nice interesting read anyway :peace:
April 15, 200521 yr OMG! ROFLMFAO! OMG!!!! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!! :peace: XD! so thats why my friends comp sucks...its all an HP...and HP does suck. well...id say that was quite a funny read. But wait...what if you ask to speak to a L4 tech? what will they do? Deny that it exists? XD :| that is really funny though.
April 15, 200521 yr Author You don't talk to level 4 reps. Level 3 puts you on hold, opens second line, calls tier 4 aka development, figure something out, then the hang up with them, tier 3 comes back and tells you it's fixed.
April 15, 200521 yr O.O....thats mean....what if i ask to speak to the level FIVE person? WHATA THEY GONNA DO THEN!? (thinking outside the box :peace: ):peace:
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