Its nice to see the many opinions here. My view on the whole mess is this...1) I was always against the invasion of Iraq, and I still think it was a big mistake today. It was a big mistake that has now cost many American and British lives. We should have handled it differenlty. I think we should have just warned Saddam that if he used WMD, he and his country would be vaporized (nuked) and removed off the face of the earth. It would have been a simple push of a button, and no American or Brittish lives lost.2) Now, that we have entered into this mess (Iraq), we need to encourage other countries to get off their dead ass and start helping these people (Iraqs) build a free and democratic society. It seems that all the non-participating countries (countries other than the US and UK) are always pointing fingers and saying what should or should not have been done, but they all expect the US to carry the burden.3) Somebody here metioned that the US prevented all of Europe from Hitler rule, and that was long ago, and things are different now. Well, that is not true, and Saddam was a prime example of another Hitler. You forget that Saddam invaded a nearby country and was about to invade Saudi Arabia until we stoped him. I only wish we could have handled the "new" Iraq situtaion in a non-combative way.4) Someone here quoted how many Iraq lives were lost during the war vs. how many Americans were lost during the 911 attacks at the World Trade Center. Well, you failed to mention how many mass graves have been uncovered in Iraq, as well as how many other lives have been lost to terrorist organizations all over the world. 5) Someone here metioned the fact the the U.S is to agressive towards other nations. Well, my view is this...the U.S. should pull all their troops out from around the world and bring them back to American soil. I think we should just stay here and protect our own country and leave the other countries alone. If someone invades us, we just simply remove their country from the face of the earth. If they leave us alone...no problem...we will not harm them. 6) When another country is in trouble, do not call on the US for help, go call on the United Nations. Let them help ya out. Let France, Canada, or some other non-combative country take the lead and make the world a better place. Let them pay for it in lives, money, and pain and suffering. Yes, just let someone else do the dirty work, so the Americans can sit back and do the finger pointing.Anyway...these are my views..

Hey, you decided to make that war, don't come whining on non-combative country because we don't fight .The stats were Iraq VS americans, and not Iraq VS Iraq. I could have also stated the condition of imprisonement of the US which goes against the Geneva Convention. (and other violation of this treaty too, from both country)About the antrax thing (Crime is my anti--drug), I just made a little search to be sure if what I heard, and after investigation of the FBI it was said that the Anthrax attack was made by an Ex-US military, and not Iraq.In my opinion, those discussions are worthless, because americans that support bush will try to convert people to support bush and vice-versa, while everyone stay on there front line.Last time I post in this thread, Most likely. see ya in another thread

I agree 99% with you Gator and 1% cos why elliminate a country on the map world with the "poor" peoples when a "crazy / mad" dirigeant make the fool ?This fool we can to see what he made & spy him, but not the people who fellow this fanatic... Yes, nuke the country it's most easy : no more fanatics but this country will stay not exploited while 1000 years...Egidio.PS. USA sold their old army stock : I can buy a old tank Sherman MK1 but to travel from USA to Belgium is more expensive and i can buy too a old F-14 TomCat (Navy type) : i can fly with it to the Belgian airfield near my town, but 100$ by month until 1000 years i cant to keep his maintenance updated. :roll: Egidio.

Hey, you decided to make that war, don't come whining on non-combative country because we don't fight .

 

The stats were Iraq VS americans, and not Iraq VS Iraq. I could have also stated the condition of imprisonement of the US which goes against the Geneva Convention. (and other violation of this treaty too, from both country)

 

About the antrax thing (Crime is my anti--drug), I just made a little search to be sure if what I heard, and after investigation of the FBI it was said that the Anthrax attack was made by an Ex-US military, and not Iraq.

 

In my opinion, those discussions are worthless, because americans that support bush will try to convert people to support bush and vice-versa, while everyone stay on there front line.

 

Last time I post in this thread, Most likely. see ya in another thread

Well, you obviously did not read my post closely. I said I was against the war, and I said it was time to let other countries take on the burden of protecting the world...and I agree, we should stay out of it completely. When you said I decided to make the war. I did not. But the war is history now, so we need to focus on helping the country of Iraq. I think other countries should start doiing their share of helping, and stop pointing fingers.

No,,,,its human agaist the Inhuman ,, We didn't ask for this war but we shall damm sure finish it

NORM, you are 100% wrong with every word in this statement

A man may commit inhuman acts, but he is still human in nature. We as humans are able to preform horrible acts, and because of this we are flawed.

And NORM, Bush DID ask for this war. Saddam had NO PART in the 9/11 attacks, but Bush decided to gun for him anyway.

So...it's more like "We started this war and we're desperatly trying end it and foget it.And we're also going to pray eveyone else forgets it too"

UnwantedHero, Saddam had been involved with Osama Bin Laden on many occassions, from funding to weapons smuggling and all kinds of crap. Not saying he was involved in 9/11, but he HAS been known to be involved with Osama in the past. Gator, you can be against the war all you want. As long as you stay out of the road thats fine. (I HATE PROTESTORS!!!!!)

UnwantedHero, Saddam had been involved with Osama Bin Laden on many occassions, from funding to weapons smuggling and all kinds of crap. Not saying he was involved in 9/11, but he HAS been known to be involved with Osama in the past.

 

Gator, you can be against the war all you want. As long as you stay out of the road thats fine. (I HATE PROTESTORS!!!!!)

Well Crime, I served 24 years in the US military and received an Honorable Discharged and retirement citation from the President of the United States, so I would hardly call me a "War Protester". I am only concerned about the welfare of my fellow soldiers, sailers, airmen, and marines. One day maybe you will understand.

Yeah Gator, I read your post fast, because I was in a hurry so like read 1 on 2 words :DThe Military man are one of the peoples I respect the most (24 years in the military is damn well respectable) Just after the pope and cardinals .Crime, I don't want to be mean, but please before you post, check your info... Osama bin Laden worked for the CIA before and was vastly funded by the CIA (3 billion dollar to be exact) he don't need much more fund raising... he had more then he used.

Osama did not work FOR The CIA...he was funded by the CIA to fight the Soviets who occupied Afghanistan.If you watch 'Bowling for Colombine' (and extremly funny movie) you'll see a full timeline of some of the stupidest things America has done

Well if he was funded by the CIA to fight the Soviet for them, I call that working for

ya, but not in the...walking through the pentagon with a black suit...type of working...and as I said, he was funded by the CIA, the CIA also trained the taliban troops in guerilla warefare.Seems the US were getting a taste of their own medicine

The reason why the US is in all these countries in the first place is because the UN is useless as an international peacekeeper. It was founded for this purpose, but since then countries have begun using it simply to secure their own stakes in the world. For example, France has taken an anti-war stance against the war in Iraq and instead favored weapons inspections. Inspections would have left Iraq without WMD, but Saddam, who has used chemical weapons before, can easily import WMD from neighbors afterwards. (Iraq already bought hundreds of thousands of doses of atrapine, a nerve gas antidote, from the US and other sources, likely to give to their soldiers so chemical weapons can be used on the battlefield.) And if there are weapons in Iraq, the UN would have just confiscated them, they would have never attacked. After all, finding weapons in Iraq in violation of the UN resolution was hailed as "progress". And as for that, why aren't UN inspectors in North Korea? The reason why France only wants inspections is because they will sustain heavy economic losses from lost oil contracts in the Iraqi war. They don't give a damn about the Iraqi people, because if they did they would join our coalition. Saddam's first act in power was to execute his political opposition, and after the war in 91 he killed everyone who supported the Americans. America helps people like this because we had to win independence ourselves, and ironically enough, we play the role that France played in our revolution. There are many countries especially in Africa, as UnwantedHero said, that are oppressive and require intervention, but I think the US is more reluctant to go into jungle counties because of vietnam. We can't liberate all the countries that need it all at once, but given time, we'll get to them. The Middle East is first ebcause they pose a grave danger to us through terrorism. However Gator, we can't just bomb our problems away because of all the innocent people who we'd kill as well. We dropped surgical bombs and sent in ground troops in Iraq, and yet people are still whining about civilian casualties there. (btw VampMaster I'd like those stats you gave qualified, i.e. in what way 2442 children were killed. And also, the UN had its oil for food program in place during the embargo. If we had given more food to saddam, I doubt he would have shared much of it but with his supporters.)

 

But Iraq is just the biggest threat in a Middle East riddled with problems. Saudi Arabia says they are our allies, yet their country produces terrorists such as Bin Laden, and members of their government still do support terrorism. The palestinians say they are fighting Israeli occupation, when in reality they are being as immature as children. Israel has offered them 98% of the land they wanted and they refused. And then during the latest round of peace talks, the leader of HAMAS vowed more attacks to derail the talks. They don't want peace, they want victory. And I'm also tired of people comparing the US and Israel to the terrorists. We kill soldiers, terrorists, and the people who support them. In the process, we also kill some civilians, but not very many, and not intentionally. Terrorists actually target civilians and people in their daily lives, including women and children. People shouldn't criticize America for accidently killing civilians, while we are fighting people who purposely target civilians.

 

www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

Well...it is kind of funnyas cannon said, America sold all these horrible chemical things to themSo why arn't we looking at America? They pose as much a threat as Iraq did...chemical weapons should be outlawed world wide, there's just no use for them besides showing them off to the other rulers and going "see...you attack me...and I hit you with these babies!"yes, and Saudia Arabia/North Korea are almost literally jumping out and saying "hey, look at us!" but yet America ignores them and still guns on with their own agenda.I think if this War on Terror were to properly contiune, the next country should be Saudia Arbia (they have openly said they harbored terrorists)

UnwantedHero, why are you so anti-American?

Chemical weapons are the weapons used by the poor countries and easy to travel with it, like anthrax & drugs and some other who are top secret.To conquer the old Russia (CCCP) it was very easy : fall down with parachutes most barrels of alcohol & Wodka, you invade this country after all soldiers & officiers are drunk : no people killed = a good war.Now if you know the weak point of the opposant (for to not say the ennemies) a war is very easy : at Islamics & Musulmans, if you say that all bullets are made and enrobed with fat pig's grease and if you fire on them they dont go to the Allah paradise : they deposit their guns without a shot !Psychologic war is best than guns war without a gout of blood.In Belgium, give us a good beer to talk & we will become immediatly the great friends... Egidio.

-Gator]UnwantedHero, why are you so anti-American?

it seems my views and UnwantedHero's views are very similar on this point.

I am not Anti-America. In fact, I think America is one of the greatest nations there is (Canada and Britain being up there as well). I educate myself as to the good points and the bad points of America. For Example: Even though Andrew "I'm a Bastard" Jackson is personally responsible for mass genocide of the Native Americans and is still pictured on the twenty-dollar-bill, I still stand behind the country.

 

A true patriot does not blindly follow his country. A true patriot educates himself on his country.

I see on some medecin books that the USA create the first chemical weapon : a mortal virus called "Smalpox" to genocide this native americans called here "Indians".Egidio.

I really don't think any of these children know what they are talking about ,, so Gator do us all a favor and close this thread before someone really gets their feelings hurt :roll:

Potatoe_Cannon....Couldn't have said that better myself.

Well Crime, I served 24 years in the US military and received an Honorable Discharged and retirement citation from the President of the United States, so I would hardly call me a "War Protester". I am only concerned about the welfare of my fellow soldiers, sailers, airmen, and marines

Well Gator, I totally respect that reason. In fact, that is the only thing that I was against in the war is the fact that our soldiers were getting killed out there.

 

But as Potatoe_Cannon also put it, Iraq is by far one of the biggest threats in the middle east. And as far as Palestine goes... they need to just drop it, stop throwing rocks at Israeli M1A1s and end this meaningless religious war before the Israeli's REALLY hit back hard, and I can't say I'd blame them. I personally think Bush needs to target FAMAS and eradicate that terrorist group. And I don't mean target Palestine in general, just any person involved with that particular group. Starting with Yasser Arafat.

Err... HAMAS, not FAMAS... :? They sound too much alike... :shock:

I see on some medecin books that the USA create the first chemical weapon : a mortal virus called "Smalpox" to genocide this native americans called here "Indians".

Egidio.

Uhh... Born To Die...

 

That my friend, is a complete and total 110% LIE. The REAL truth as far as smallpox goes is it was brought over here by British colonists back in the 1600-1700s, that and several other European viruses that the Europeans had come in contact with before leaving for the new world, this including Influenza (the flu) and many other viruses. The USA wasnt even a nation at the time smallpox was killing off indians. And it wasnt intentional either, back at the time I doubt they had the science and technology to create viruses.

As Crime said, The biggest threat at the moment for US is the Middle-east... But what is the Biggest threat for middle-East? America Inc (US, Israel etc)There is a book about the true US history... I am currently reading it, quite interesting, shows that the US ain't built from fluffy pink bunnies... :DFamas is a Assault gun from France ... The HAMAS is a resistance group. It will end up in a war, we know that BUT IT IS THERE WARS.It will end up like the us couple of years back in South VS north or the IRA in Ireland (not sure if it's IRA in english). (even if IMHO Israel should be the one being kicked out since they are the one that have been put there on a territory that was owned by the Palestinians.)Note to Self: I should no come back on my word when I said I would not post in this topic again

Explain how they discover the "pelicilin" and some other "vaccines" before 1900 ?USA have 50 years technologies in advance than Europa : you have 51 States & they use only 1 money : the Dollars ($), in Europa the dirigeants make the only one money too the euro (€) but after 220 years than USA have his independant day in 1776-1783.I like the other countries stories specialty when there is scientifics hints...You have 5 bullets clips on your rifles & the good Thomson sub-machinegun in 1939-1945 WW2, Germans have subs too and other countries have again this old single shot rifle from 1914-1918 WW1 !Vietnam in 1965-1975 you created the Napalm, the best M16 who is most silent mecanisms than the AK-47 and the "orange agent" to destroy the vegetations, etc... In Belgium, the weapons factory begin to made only the big clip for rifles & good machineguns... But you have the Gattling !USA is most in advance with there weapons also with their Airfighters.<--- I know that cos i assembled YF-16 type A and USA have type C.Egidio.

-E_NORM_US_1]Gator do us all a favor and close this thread before someone really gets their feelings hurt

please, Gator, can we have just one war-post not locked? give it a few more days.