We were discussing the friendly fire change and since I can't post in the clan only forum, I figured I'd post my thoughts here.

 

Personally, I hate it. Within 5 minutes, I had teamkilled several of my mates and other members of my squad. I only use mines in a defense measure (as they are meant to be) by placing them in choke points where an enemy may pass by.

 

However, here's the kicker:

 

If you place a mine in a good defensive location (that is, nearby to an objective such as a beacon or a flag that you already have control of), it will be in a location closer to your men than to the enemy. I place mines where if I and my fellow soldiers die, the enemy will pass by it. That stops them, allowing me to respawn, and continue defense. However, my teammates are MUCH more likely to pass by these locations because we already control them.

 

For example, the most appropriate use of a mine is flag defense. Say you place a mine near a choke point next to a flag that your team has control of. You want to protect that choke point from enemy's passing through it. However, in order to go on offense, your team must pass through that point as well. With the current FF situation, YOU CANNOT USE THE MINE TO PROTECT THAT POINT.

 

In essence, the APM mine has been turned into an offensive weapon since you can only place it where you expect the enemy to be. It is the opposite effect of what was intended.

 

Now, I know what you are trying to prevent (IE. recon guys throwing down claymores like grenades) but honestly, it doesn't happen often enough for me to ever have had any problems with it. I personally never do it and in the off chance that it happens, I just deal with it and move on.

 

As it stands right now, I have completely stopped using APM mines. More than 50% of the time they were placed, I killed a team member instead of an opponent. Since team kills are -2 points and look bad, I had to completely stop their use.

 

A member of =A= mentioned, "I have noticed I'm not dying very much from APM mines now." It is precisely because everyone is too afraid to use them.

 

APM mines are annoying as hell but they serve a very useful and fun purpose. With FF the way it is, they cann't serve that purpose.

 

-GA

 

PS: I never use motion mines but I can imagine that they are extremely frustrating now. You can't place them on a road unless you expect your vehicles to NEVER cross that road!

We are just in the experimental stages at the moment so we can come to a better understanding of what we would like on our servers, so it is not permanent as of yet....as far as I know anyways.

We are just in the experimental stages at the moment so we can come to a better understanding of what we would like on our servers, so it is not permanent as of yet....as far as I know anyways.

Oh, I know :thumbsup:

Just wanted to share my 2 cents. I thought I could put what a lot of people were feeling cogently.

This feedback is much appreciated, it's what we were looking for.

 

On a personal note, I have to admit I think I found a way to make my Motion Mines work for me with FF on. On Berlin today I found a wide gap and used a combo of EMP mines and Motion Mines. I placed the EMP mines at a slant so that any incoming enemy will see the open place to their left and head that way... right into some waiting Motion Mines. Whereas my teammates, from their side they saw both and I'm pleased to say every Walker and APC driver on my team was smart enough to drive over the EMP's instead, suffering only a slight slowdown and my trap only being slightly messed up but easily fixed. I managed to get my first Explosive Efficiancy pin on motion mine kills instead of the usual APM's.

 

The real test will be Gibralter... that's where I want to see how FF impacts our game. I didn't get a chance to get to it as the server crashed we got to that map and the cycle and I decided I was just too pissed off to have a pleasant game.

This feedback is much appreciated, it's what we were looking for.

 

On a personal note, I have to admit I think I found a way to make my Motion Mines work for me with FF on. On Berlin today I found a wide gap and used a combo of EMP mines and Motion Mines. I placed the EMP mines at a slant so that any incoming enemy will see the open place to their left and head that way... right into some waiting Motion Mines. Whereas my teammates, from their side they saw both and I'm pleased to say every Walker and APC driver on my team was smart enough to drive over the EMP's instead, suffering only a slight slowdown and my trap only being slightly messed up but easily fixed. I managed to get my first Explosive Efficiancy pin on motion mine kills instead of the usual APM's.

 

The real test will be Gibralter... that's where I want to see how FF impacts our game. I didn't get a chance to get to it as the server crashed we got to that map and the cycle and I decided I was just too pissed off to have a pleasant game.

I was there when the server crashed and stayed on until the next time it came around. No one was using APM mines. And when they did, they were teamkilling. You never had to worry about them at all in fact.

I like the friendly fire on myself. Seems like the games have a lot more excitment to em. Without the apms everywhere people seem to be moving a lot more. Apms everywhere really slow the pace of the game down in my opinion. Apms seem to have developed into the primary weapon for the recon kit. This being the case i think u will have a lot of people unhappy with the change. However, i give the change a big :thumbsup: . On maps like Fall of Berlin, Camp Gibraltor and Ceber Landing both teams could break out of there spawn a lot easier than before. It really sucks when u are on the weaker team and are stuck in your spawn the whole game. Never saw that happen one time tonight while i was on.

 

Just my two cents,

Sheriff

I like the APM wo/IFF it allows snipers to set up a nest and not get knifed...{lay 2, snipe, pick them up, move to new location} (they are on the sniper unlock tree) but they cant be used as flag/hall defence (somethimg support/snipers should cover)

 

Motion mines should have IFF (engi bias perhaps...)...they are slow, anounce their location (float at eye level+klaxon), and are an engineer weapon (less engis per game than recons). You can bail out of a vehicle, APM bails you out of your body with no warning.

 

Umm...yeah, that is all.

 

(i play Engi/SecOp(w/apm:rolleyes:) so i use them both)

well i wish i was there to try it out with u guys. :thumbsup:

I used APM mines for flag defense as well as my own defense. I actually cover my back with them when trying to snipe which has helped me avoid some ever-so-embarrassing knife in the back kills. I would like to try the friendly-fire on for a while to get a feel for this. Roach, I like the idea you had for that ambush. I was concerned that with friendly fire on, the engineer kit lost a little bit of its fury.

I used to love FF when I played 1942 but have grown very tired of it with each new iteration of BF. Perhaps it's because of the attached punishment system that it's become so irritating to me. I mean when you happen to graze a friendly vehicle or infantry, you get a negative score. Bah, I say!

 

I've lost count of how many times I've been yelled at in a game because I used claymores to defend a flag that I knew was about to be assaulted by the enemy. Friendly players would not pay attention to the obvious skull and crossbones warning symbol, blow themselves to bits, punish and then yell at me. And what do I get for actively defending our flag? A negative teamwork score and lower overall/career score.

 

The FF system either needs to be not enabled by the server management or the game developers need to redesign it into a better more logical and less easily exploitable system.

Well being 1 that voted yes to this change,allow me to share my 5cents.

 

At first i really didn't see a problem with tring this out.But now i see that it's gonna be a huge problem from a admin point of veiw,people are getting kicked from the servers for all the TK'ing that's happening from this.Were having a harder time keeping servers full for very long.

I've seen a lot of text and hear in game/vent people displeased.

Some of our own members are sooo unhappy about it that they want to go to diff. servers.

 

Now of course this is only a test Imo.And it's only been a day.

But i'm thinking already this isn't going to work,mines are just as mucha part of this game as healing and supplying it may be easy points but it's part of the game.Some people like to play with just shooting guns and think others that do different are "lame".

That not enough to ruin the game for everyone else.

I did notice that our server was never full in the time I was on last night. We were always down 6 to 8 peaple. I sometimes wonder if that contributed to the more "wide open" games as well. JC, myself, and others discussed both this and APM's FF before this all came up. I'm in the camp that thinks that 48 peaple on a 32 player map contributes more to spam than FF off, but I may amend my opinion depending on how the weekend goes. Yesterday was enjoyable for me. I only got TK'd from a bad Claymore once, and I guess i placed my Motion Mines right because I didn't get any TK's. In fact, I was still my usual "Vehicle Killer" self all night. Didn't hurt my game as much as I thought.

 

I'm on the fence now, let's see how the weekend goes.

Well being 1 that voted yes to this change,allow me to share my 5cents.

 

At first i really didn't see a problem with tring this out.But now i see that it's gonna be a huge problem from a admin point of veiw,people are getting kicked from the servers for all the TK'ing that's happening from this.Were having a harder time keeping servers full for very long.

 

I've seen a lot of text and hear in game/vent people displeased.

 

Some of our own members are sooo unhappy about it that they want to go to diff. servers.

 

Now of course this is only a test Imo.And it's only been a day.

 

But i'm thinking already this isn't going to work,mines are just as mucha part of this game as healing and supplying it may be easy points but it's part of the game.Some people like to play with just shooting guns and think others that do different are "lame".

 

That not enough to ruin the game for everyone else.

I voted to keep it off and after playing last night, I still want it off. I agree 100% with you. It makes it harder to admin, and a lot of people are just plain upset with it on. Our Titan server did not have a lot of people on once they found out ff was on. APM's and motion mines are part of the game. Do I think some people spam with them??? Yes. But its part of the game. I didn't dare play City maps last night. I also find myself not playing Recon either. With ff on it is going to be much harder to get your badges and such also. Lets face it some of us are not as good as others, and we need all the points we can get, for us to get unlocks etc. It just makes it harder for the less experienced to compete with the more experienced players. IMHO

I have always like FF on because it makes for a "smarter" game. By that I mean those using the APMs, roller mines have to consider their own team when placing versus just tossing them out like candy to get cheap kills. It does open up the maps for more flag caps and movement IMO.

I was on last night, and I have noticed that the Armory server is one of only a few that have FF on. I must admit that I do kind of enjoy playing with it on. I mean, I do agree that it does take away from the whole aspect of mines, and that it also racks up TK's like crazy. What I liked about it though is that it added a level of difficulty and depth to the game that help me become more aware of my teammates location on the map. I killed a very few teammates yesterday, and it was mostly because they walked right in front of me while I was launching rockets down the titan corridors.

 

It does get annoying though when you have those players that shoot anything that moves including teammates. I guess what I am trying to say is, I don't mind it on, but I wouldn't mind it off either.

I like FF off but I did notice the movement a lot more fluid with it ON. You don't just have an APM stalemate on the last cap of Gibraltar anymore but actually people can run in and OMG shoot at you.

Another thing, with FF on I went 8 APM kills and 1 TK in a round of Cerbere. Offensive claymores yes and the one defensive one I put down I got the TK. LOL.

Anyway after dropping a mine to cap a flag you can pick it back up and move it so your team doesn't blow it up after you get the flag.

LMAO, okay last night I got onto the titan server and was killing myself with my own APM mines defensively placed and was like WTF?! And then I got into the city map and killed several teamates as they ran through my EMP/Motion Mine line and again I was like WTF?! When did this happen. JC and Eagle told me =A= was trying it out.

 

Honestly I can't stand it. I swear I feel as if we're back in BF2 trying to figure out to put FF mines/apms or not; I thought we had figured this out.

 

I always figured in say 2142! the mines would be smart enough to not kill friendlies. Also you'd only allowed two to be out at a time.

 

People are sheeple! they will run into your damn mine just after you layed it, die and then punish you or if you're close they'll kill you to. And then you don't know where friendlies have layed them and so you'll be running along and BAM you're dead. The game can already be frustrating as it is with the glitches, and noobs and this just adds tons more blood pressure to the mix. lol.

I totally agree

But i'm thinking already this isn't going to work,mines are just as mucha part of this game as healing and supplying it may be easy points but it's part of the game.Some people like to play with just shooting guns and think others that do different are "lame".

 

That not enough to ruin the game for everyone else.

+1000000000

ALSO:

 

One of the admins (forget who) was explaining that they changed this to prevent "offensive mining" where a recon will run around a corner with some enemies behind it, drop a claymore, and use it like a mine.

 

With FF on the way it is, it doesn't prevent that at all! That kind of offensive use of it actually becomes MORE likely since it is the best way to avoid getting TKs with mines.

 

Just another thought. The change doesn't prevent what it was supposed to.

Im not a fan of it myself, couple of the guys on the titan map werent too fond of it last night from wha tI could make of it. I can deal with it, but its gonna added alot of TK'ing to the game.

Whoever said the change was made to prevent offensive mining either slipped or were confused. FF on/off has always been about defensive mine placement. I honestly don't know what the fuss is about on APMs. Most are so sloppily placed whether they're friendly/enemy that one can simple see them and crawl around them or diffuse them. I play on servers with FF ON and OFF and it doesn't bother me much either way except I find the quality of play to be higher on the FF ON servers.

Whoever said the change was made to prevent offensive mining either slipped or were confused. FF on/off has always been about defensive mine placement. I honestly don't know what the fuss is about on APMs. Most are so sloppily placed whether they're friendly/enemy that one can simple see them and crawl around them or diffuse them. I play on servers with FF ON and OFF and it doesn't bother me much either way except I find the quality of play to be higher on the FF ON servers.

exactly what i'm aiming for

getting really irratated, motion mines and sentry guns :thumbsup:

I liked it better FF turned on. Less mine spammage. You just have to learn when to deploy mines.

Im not worried about me deploying them, im worried about all the other people who are still apamming them and killing me :thumbsup:

 

I Pretty much just gave up on using anything that doesnt have a trigger, dont like that but it keeps me from TK'ing people