Chappy

WOW! This is great conversation wish I could get this kind of gut check stuff in the church but unfortunately I think most of our middle class mainline folks are too fearful to look in the mirror and see the implications of being in a human family.?I just want to say I agree with a person doing for them selves in whatever way they can! That is a fact. It is also a fact, however, that we were created, I believe, to live in community, not isolated me-against-the-world individuals. In as much as all of nature is interdependent for its survival (ecology is a great teacher of life, I think Jesus (that man born in a barn) used analogies of creation) so, also, we are by nature interdependent with one another and creation. No one can claim independence from the air, the sun, its nutrients, the foods stuff and vegetation, its water, etc. I think it nonsense when anyone understands themselves in creation as independent.?The same holds true socially. We, individually, are social creatures and influence, shape, redirect, etc, by virtue of our lives and decisions made for us, by us, around us, about us from all involved. How much and what degree is a matter of subjective experience and opinion.You and I, DeadRoach, seem to have walked a similar road. I am the only one in my family of origin (4 children, I is the baby!) who was able to go to college and earn a degree. In 1979 I was long haired, a hippie girl wannabe, druggy, all the terms you got labeled with that you have mentioned and more. At the urging of a Lutheran pastor who believed in me I decided to get my GED (I quit high school in pursuit of the rock & roll dream!) and enroll in college. Like you, I worked my ass off, lived at home (till I was sick of it!) and got lots of grants and loans (which took me about 12 years to pay off). I am proud of what I have been able to accomplish, but I will never forget those who helped. A mentor believed in me (even when I was ready to give up). You cannot put a value on this!!! My folks let me live rent free while I perused education. I am white (you cannot deny that skin color doesn't still open/shut some doors). I am male (cannot be denied that women still make or less for same work/effort). AND, government had funds available for this!!! I was dam lucky to get into the school funding programs during Pres. Carter's term because Reagan cut about of it a few years into his 1st term!) Later in graduate school my wonderful wife helped support us and pay for schooling. I am sure this is not an exhaustive list, but my point is we all need a hand up as you put it so that we can feel good about our individual productivity for the whole of society (i.e. giving back as Ted Kennedy so eloquently stated in the 1980 Democratic Convention btw one of the best speeches of the 20th Century in my humble opinion). I believe in education and training. As Tom Brokaw rightly argues and documents in his book, The Greatest Generation, The GI Bill after WW2 was the government welfare program for millions of GI's without jobs and education that arguably made The United States a sustained world power over the following decades.My point is why can't we offer this free education to millions of our unemployed, underemployed, poverty paid working poor of this country??? I think it would revolutionize not only our country, but the world! Many of the less fortunate and working poor have no one to instill confidence, a belief in themselves (they get plenty of bashing and putdowns however!). Many come from a generation's history of social labeling, disenfranchisement and outright eco/social racism. As for handouts, I don't think anyone should get a free ride, however look up in Google how much of the total U.S. Federal Budget is spent on welfare? programs for deadbeat moms/dads. I think you will see it is quite negligible and a worn out stereotype of government allocations used by political pundits who rely on the ignorance of people who will not educate themselves and investigate the real numbers!!! It is laughable when compared to other programs such as Medicare/Medicaid (unless your ready to uninsure millions of children and elderly) and by far and away the largest expenditure, the military budget (now incredibly ballooned by so-called Homeland Security!) Look up the numbers, look at the federal line items and STOP believing the rhetoric of political parties!!! I too Unwanted get pretty cynical about our future, but I truly believe in the deep spirit of humankind that we all know what we need to do to live lives that are blessings rather than destruction. Unfortunately life can overwhelm and disease this sacred knowledge, so it takes intentional work, prayer, etc to keep hope and perserverence at the forefront. If, indeed, we do self destruct, then we really have nothing to lose in living lives that are positive and hope filled. Not sure what to say State about children in the Bible except to say that children had no intrinsic value in the ancient world accept to pass on family names and work. It was usual practice to kill most baby girls because they were not seen as work valued, only as reproductive in nature. This is why it was so radical when Jesus held up a "worthless" child in the midst of adults (who supposedly know better) and claimed The Kingdom of God in their midst! Quite a reversal of what was considered powerful, useful, important, etc. Wow! Let's keep this up! Great stuff!

State that is funny Ironically Russia had its revolution to oust the Czar because of the large masses of peasantry and working poor that were ignored (if not ridiculed) by the nobility and ruling classes (i.e. the wealthy). Carl Marx was heavily influenced by Jesus' social reforms (in spite of the fact he denounced the church/religion because of its political and economic ties to the Czar and wealth). I do not find wealth a problem any more than Marx. What I do have problems is for those who regard it more than the working poor who could use retraining, education, technical schools, etc, which most working poor have no access to because they are unable to network in the structures that avail themselves to the ruling classes. I hope we, in the U.S. that is witnessing a greater divide between the haves and have-nots than anytime in our history will not see the vacum filled by another radical like Marx. It would behoove theRepublican party to find ways to help socially as this may avoid a grim social future. Read "Habits of the Heart" pub. 1990 (?) written by a group of sociologist who do a modern study on American values using a social science study done in 1820. Very enlightening. I would honor your opinion.

are you kiddn' me! to be Mac's kid would be children's paradise baby!!! have you seen his game room for these tikes!? :shock: OMG...heck...even makes me want to be adopted by him and i'm 10 years older!!! 8) (*cough*cough* by the way Mac...have you thought anymore about that? I promise to clean my room and everything... really! :wink: )

You know Flak... that picture... the way the weapon comes from the soldiers... :shock: *cough cough*... see... is it suggestive Flak? Or have you just reeled me into another one of those psycho ink blob sex test???

LOL

Best thread I've seen in a while... laughing too hard!!!

Yes, The Judean/Christian God IS political... When Moses went to Pharaoh, he did not go with blankets and canned foods! Rather he said, "Let my people go!!!" He said this in the political center of the capital city. God, I believe, wants us to do essentially 3 things in life: to act with justice, to love (our neighbor as ourselves), and to walk humbly (wisdom) before God and all creation (see Micah Chapter 6). Jesus, of course, confronted the unjust practices of the world's great 2 powers, religion (i.e. The Temple Practices and Pharisees/Scribes) and politics (Herod/Pilate/etc.) and embodied the prophets Micah's recipe of a Godly life. Jesus demanded justice for the poor and outcast (see Luke Chapters 2-4). He also demanded followers to give all (possessions) for The Way of life that leads to justice and servanthood (see story of the Rich Young Ruler Mark chapter 19, Luke 18, Matthew 19, Book of Acts Chapter 2 and story of the Tax Collector Zacchaeus Luke Chapter 19). I ask a question of a so-called "Christian" nation: are we living out Jesus sermon on Beatitudes? I think we have "spiritualized" the Bible (Old and New Testaments) to death to the point where we have forgotten that it is a collection of books that speak about real people oppressed by real egos of power both religious and political. We have forgotten that Jesus himself was crucified at the hands of political and religious greed and power. In the ancient world resources were considered limited. Therefore, anyone with wealth was considered suspect because it was assumed that in a world of limited resources someone had to be defrauded or oppressed in order for another to assume/hoard more than what he/she needed to live by. I'm afraid that our nation's political/economic/religious "playing field" favor's those who fear of losing their wealth and power. It is a nation that puts the individual above the community (Jesus certainly did not see this as justice, heck even our present day military is closer to this ideal than our nation's leaders!) I believe that we, as a nation, will be judged ultimately by how we treat the "least of these" in our midst: the hungry, the thirsty, the homeless, the suffering, the alien (immigrant?)... see Matthew 25:31 and following) Faith and "belief" is hollow and useless if it is not lived in acts of justice and love (see James chapter 2). So I ask: Is "privatizing" welfare an act of justice for the community or for the individual? Is our neighbor's need a part of this policy?(BTW- if this policy had passed before the stock downturn 2 years ago, my mother (Soc. Sec. dependent) would be in a homeless shelter)So I ask: Is God all about "individual rights" over and against the rights of all of God's children and creation everywhere? So I ask: Is being right all about walking by and leaving behind those physically and economically "dead" in the ditch of our society? (See the parable of the Good Samaritan for the answer here. Luke chapter 10)The problem, as I see it, is that we have become a nation that is all about "me." 8) Yes, we must be responsible and accountable to self, but God (I believe) was about the "other" and when the "neighbor" (metaphor for all others other than myself) is not cared for, included in the justice and prosperity of the collective whole,.... then we are corrupt and most surely to be pitied among nations.As for history, it is ironic that the same financial and economic policies that led our nation into The Great Depression are substantially the same (in philosophy and practice) as the present day Republican plan. :shock: It was the practice of private industry that helped induce the catastrophe of the late 20's and the decade of the 30's. (yes, the rest of world was hurting too, but the Republican policies did nothing to stymie the local situation, but fed into it)When industry and private corporations are not able (or willing) to help when 25% of the workforce is unemployed, who then helps??? :roll: That is why FDR was elected FOUR times, because he (especially in first two elections, war years are up to debate) acted for the good of all and not just for some (by the way, justice is NOT "just us!"I'm not sure Wal-Mart (Republican poster child of corporate economic success) is anything to brag about. As a former employee, they are the largest and most successful retailer IN THE WORLD! :shock: They also pay poverty wages to working poor/elderly while the fat cats in Arkansas get richer. Hell, they even demand you pay homage to non-union policies (or they will not hire you!). How's that for "freedom."???Naw, I'm disgusted with politics. I don't even listen to the messages anymore because I think they took a copy of one speech 30 years ago and just keep repeating it over and over and over... nothing new. Us vs Them... sad.When I see a picture of the earth from space I do not see borders, political parties or divided/segmented residential areas. Maybe we need to understand and see policy from THAT perspective!One last ting (not really): our "liberal" press needs to do what they did to President Carter in the Hostage Crisis. Ted Copple comes on and says, "Nightline: Day 324: Where's The WMD?"

Me, Hope and pray your sister will recover and have a full life. Also prayers for you and your family during this ordeal. There are no easy answers as to the why and wherefore on these kind of matters. Only that we all suffer and are limited but trust that the God who made your sister and all people and the universe is with herin both her pain as well as her hope and joy. Blessings mybrother...

Tis true, where you aim is where bullets fly... I just can't aim :shock: ... seems to have an adverse effect on my game... BUT...there is hope. Seems a few players are kind enough to run into my line of fire! :mrgreen: Thanks guys... you know who you are! :wink:

"Hi Scorpio!" :wink: *hands Scorp a cup of hot joe made fresh in his field helmet* "So Scorpio... say more about your addiction my friend..." 8)

NIce pic Mac! Good look'n kids too! Whose DNA that get that from??? :wink: Also definitely agree with the dad's here about doin' your chores, homework, etc. A kid can nearly ask for anything if those things are done! Darn, wish I had that insight when I was young!!!

thanks for the laughs...

Well....here it goes.... I'm 44, three children (two highshool boys and one jr high girl) and married to same understanding and forgiving woman I met 24 years ago! :shock: My education is as follows: Associates of Arts Degree, Longview College, Missouri; Bachelor of Arts, University of Missouri in Kansas City; Masters of Divinity, Trinity Lutheran Seminary, Columbus, Ohio; Clinical Pastoral Education Certificates from The Ohio State University Hospitals, Columbus, Ohio and Health Midwest Hospitals, Kansas City, Missouri. I completed Chaplain Corp Basic Training in The United States Navy at NETC and Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island. I have served in the military reserves since 1994 and currenlty in the Air Force Chaplain Corp since 1997. I have served Lutheran and Episcopal parishes in Ohio, North Dakota, Texas, Kansas and Missouri. I repeat much the same as above for why I play: fun, pressure release, international peers, great guys who run the server (The Armory) and great players who play on it, etc, etc. Sometimes I worry about the time I and my kids spend on the computer. As a parent there needs to be supervision and guidance. In our culture there is a lot of greed and crap that is not only in cyberspace but in TV, movies, magazines, etc. So one needs to be smart, that's for sure, and parents need to get involved and help guide. On the other hand, it is a great tool for learmning and fun (hence FA). Personally, I believe that human beings are addictive personalities by nature (I got that from a prof in seminary and in my clinical training). So in my opinion, FA is healthy choice when compared to all the other choices in our culture that are out to brainwash kids into greed, sex gods, war gods, money gods, etc. That is not to say FA is perfect. Nothing/no one is! But like I say, I think when compared with other things/choices in our money/power obsessed society, its a pretty good choice! Bangbang, hope this helps... its all about the fun.... :mrgreen: - Chaplain Joe black

I feel a need to make a public thread to announce apologies to the FA community in general and to the TA members and, specifically, to Gator, Mac and the Senior Council. Without getting into too much detail (which is boring anyway) I let a lot of frustration get to me this week and took it out on the FA community and TA specifically. I want players to know that what I said about FA/TA was born out of self pity and frustration which I did not handle well or correctly. To echo Doc's words, TA and their server is given to play for other gamers as a PRIVILEGE by those (Gator and Co.)who desire players to enjoy and have fun with others. Let me say that one more time....to play FA on TA is a PRIVILEGE.... not a right, mine or anyone else's!!! Most who play do not pay $ to play. Without that obvious commitment and care by Gator, Mac and others, to state another obvious... there would be no TA server for anyone! Therefore, I am glad to say that the leadership of TA has allowed my reinstatement into the TA family of which I am grateful. They, indeed, provide a very good and honorable place to enjoy re-creation and play, which was the very reason I was drawn to be a part of TA to begin with. Again, my thanks and apologies. Happy frag'n- Chappy

Nothing to add to subject...just stating the obvious

ps...my hunch is that most time and work by TA leadership is going into TA DC server so that FA is all but ignored...

and one other thing....i would continue to play on TA server for FA but its so jacked up with problems it makes it no fun to play anyways.... end of my pitty party .....

yup. I'm gone. No more TA on FA so whats the point? I can't seem to get DC on my computer... the links/patch downloads dont seem to work...so to hell with it all. The TA guys are so into DC they don't seem to give a dam about members (read me in this) who are having problems.... so....I'm history...

Wait a minute...this just in too....TA FA is dead....end of story.

This update just in....FA dead.....film at 11...

Welcome and enjoy.....

I am 44 :shock: and proud of it!!! :mrgreen: I say it's never too late to have a second childhood... that is my endevour in life, to enjoy and see the world through a child's eyes...not in an immature way...but in a way that is full of wonder, enchantment, joy, hope, and laughter! Peace fellow gaming warriors! PS- I do think Gator and BTD got me beat! :wink:

Congrats and best to you! It is an honor to wear a United States military service uniform that represents generations of faith and loyalty! Go get 'em!

Happy Holy Days and Peace on Earth for the new year.... Ch. Balck

amen.