ok, i'm sorry for all the confusion about this. my intention was to address MAP EXPLOITS, and i will attempt to define them to make this easier for you all. first off, 2.8 is riddled with "exploits" in the gameplay, most have to do with hitboxes, camming, player movement, etc. i am honestly not concerned about those things. it's way too hard to police that stuff even in a league with admins reviewing demos and i wouldn't expect a clan with 90 members to be able to inform everyone of exactly what is allowed and what to look for to kick/ban.that said, i'll try and describe what i mean by MAP exploits. TA is a wonderful server and part of the reason is its diverse map rotation. we get to play old school maps like ps_invasion. but, as fun as they are for the nostalgia factor, there are reasons for the maps being taken out of FA in 2.6, 2.65...2.8. invasion specifically has a very nasty exploit where the blue team can boost up on top of the map and prone and helmet cam as the red team tries to run out. i played one such game and i was the ONLY player on my team able to run out there and even get a kill. grenades cannot hit up there as there are no vertical surfaces to aim at. you HAVE to shoot them. i used an m16 for this task and found that i had to aim low and hit them through walls in order to get kills. desertcrisis is another example. people boost on top of the map in the center area, on top of the cliffs in the base area, and just go prone and hide and cam. sandblast is another perfect example, people ride the wall to the top of the buillding in their base and hide at the end of games. they cam and when they move back you cannot see/kill them. the point is, that you cannot get to any of these spots without either boosting or using the wall climb bug. i can deal with prone strafing and camming and all that stuff. on basically all maps you can move around to another side or nade them or use teamwork or something. but when you have half a team exploiting on top of a roof on ps_invasion, it really starts to ruin the game. you can't even imagine how much whining i saw on my team. as for the other exploits, i worked as hard as i could with mazor during 2.9 development to rid the game of them, and i think we've done a pretty good job compared to previous RCs. but please, the map exploits are really ruining the fun of the game on TA, and FA in general.thanks

umm delta, great words i definitly agree with u. there is one exploit that i found on ps_inlands where i would be in prone position, with a m82 (bipod deployed) and i would float (very high). ask bojangles or jimmy about it. however, ppl could see me, and someone eventually shot me down. would this be a "kickable/banable" map exploit?

My biggest complaint (excluding the FAMAS of course) about Firearms is never usually mentioned' date=' nor does anyone ever complain about it. It is predominately used by "skilled" players, and seems to be an accepted "exploit" by most players. I am referring to the dreaded.... [drum roll']

 

Zig-Zagger Exploit

 

This is my biggest complaint of all. I think this is the single most violated "exploit" of them all. People who bind there keys to move in a side-to-side (sometimes circular) motion to avoid getting hit. In fact, I don't believe the hits actually register properly on the receiving player because of the limits in HL. You never, ever, hear anyone complaining or mentioning about people using this "exploit", but most of the "skilled" players use it consistently to avoid getting hit.

 

Even though I do not like it, I would nver ban it or tell a player he cannot use it. Why? Because it is part of the game.

i'm not sure exactly what to call this, it's kind of a shortcoming in the HL system more than anything. i will say that part of the reason people do it is to run faster. that has been fixed in 2.9, you will no longer get a speed boost from doing it.

ok, well I think we're in a stalemate here. I believe we can't elimanate all exploits, because as people have said above, they are part of the game.

How about just elimanating certain exploits, so that every leaves happy?

I would say that anything that requires the aid of another person should be banned. Like if you need to jump on someone to get to that certain spot. Besides that, I think everything else is fine.

 

Zig-Zagger Exploit

 

This is my biggest complaint of all. I think this is the single most violated "exploit" of them all. People who bind there keys to move in a side-to-side (sometimes circular) motion to avoid getting hit. In fact, I don't believe the hits actually register properly on the receiving player because of the limits in HL. You never, ever, hear anyone complaining or mentioning about people using this "exploit", but most of the "skilled" players use it consistently to avoid getting hit.

that's an exploit? I just thought it was tapping the strafe-right and strafe-left keys really fast

i'm not sure exactly what to call this, it's kind of a shortcoming in the HL system more than anything. i will say that part of the reason people do it is to run faster. that has been fixed in 2.9, you will no longer get a speed boost from doing it.

I'm talking about players intentionally moving side to side to avoid getting hit...this is very irritating, and has nothing to do with a speed boost to my knowledge. They are doing everything in there power to avoid getting hit, and always seems to move forward while hitting the strafe left/right keys at the same time.

ok, well I think we're in a stalemate here. I believe we can't elimanate all exploits, because as people have said above, they are part of the game.

How about just elimanating certain exploits, so that every leaves happy?

I would say that anything that requires the aid of another person should be banned. Like if you need to jump on someone to get to that certain spot. Besides that, I think everything else is fine.

that's a step in the right direction

 

but in order to elimate map exploits you really have to include the wall climbing bug which people use on sandblast, desertcrisis etc

oh, and delta, i can show you some hardcore cams where you won't be able to see me at all, but given you're previous statements about exploiting, i'd be afraid you would try to use them :X

I'm talking about players intentionally moving side to side to avoid getting hit...this is very irritating, and has nothing to do with a speed boost to my knowledge. They are doing everything in there power to avoid getting hit, and always seems to move forward while hitting the strafe left/right keys at the same time

hold in your foward key (w for me) and then click strafe-right and strafe-left (a and d for me)

mmkayiwojima, people, jumping at the right angle in spawn can get on top of the cliffs and run aroundsweden, for the love of god, a map that was just recently finished, you can get on the windmilldo I need to bring up the problems that used to arise with golan?the whole point of this is, when you're new to a game, you usually go to a large, semi-filled server to get your bearingsand TA is usually the big semi filled serverand if these new people come here, learn exploits and get banned everywhere else because pretty much everywhere else exploits are a bannable offense, not only does the poor admin that has to ban the new guy because of server rules look bad, so do you for teaching him thatI love you, I respect you, if I never did, I would have never joined TA in the first place, but things are getting out of handI mean, clan members openly flaunting their exploits and with step by step explanations (with pictures mind you) on how they did itughI need liquor

In my time since i've come back to FA I really haven't seen anyone exploiting... And there are few exploits which annoy me enough to make me think there should be a rule against it.

I mean, clan members openly flaunting their exploits and with step by step explanations (with pictures mind you) on how they did it

I see you are refering to me... The majority of my exploits are either useless or very ineffective. The one on river that took a five man stack was purely for fun and would truly be useless in game. My second one on sweden which is a rather magnificent one, to say the least, is effective yes, but I'd give money to who ever could do it without stacks like I did (it took me twenty minutes to actually get it right, and then I still couldn't duplicate it). Mind you I only go around and explore maps just for the fun of it. I never use exploits in game, and if I didn't know better back when I started. My exploits are merely for show nothing else.

 

and if these new people come here, learn exploits and get banned everywhere else because pretty much everywhere else exploits are a bannable offense, not only does the poor admin that has to ban the new guy because of server rules look bad, so do you for teaching him that

Admins on other server would have warned this new guy after he exploits. He would have learned that exploiting is dealt with differently on other servers through warnings and chat rather than the automatic ban. You guys make it seem like we are indirectly allowing new people to be turned away from FA due to our exploit policy. Our policy is a fair one, and until someone else comes up with something better, it seems as if it will stay...

ok, well I think we're in a stalemate here. I believe we can't elimanate all exploits, because as people have said above, they are part of the game.

How about just elimanating certain exploits, so that every leaves happy?

I would say that anything that requires the aid of another person should be banned. Like if you need to jump on someone to get to that certain spot. Besides that, I think everything else is fine.

I like the idea of eliminating certain exploits on maps. I could grab a group of guys and we could document the exploits so we know which are bannable or not. If this were to go ahead.

I would say that anything that requires the aid of another person should be banned. Like if you need to jump on someone to get to that certain spot. Besides that, I think everything else is fine.

I'm not sure I would agree on that point (at least I have a good example of a case where I think this would be bad)

 

ps_sandblast (is the map I think) if one team it pushed back hard and can't get out of their main tunnel the only hope for them to tip the balance is by boosting some ppl over the fence or into the building at spawn so they can come around and attack the enemies from the side.

 

I don't think that case should be counted as an exploit? or?

 

Further on the exploiting of the roof (same map) I never really had a problem dealing with ppl who do that. There are too many angles you can move into position and fire of nades from you m203/m79 to get them, or single shot them while they are looking somewhere else. Agree you might not get them the 1st try but they will die at some point.

 

The only exploits I would have problems with are the ones where you can't see your opponent at all e.g being on top of a building and able to shoot through the building or even just see ppl moving in there. Since often these exploits don't require the exploiter to move anywhere near the edges (and thus expose him to enemy fire)

 

Other than that I am usually able to kill ppl trying to use exploits sooner or later

 

Cu on the server,

[DIAL]Doc

 

 

P.S. Sharp I'm willing to help you if you need ppl on your quest to document map exploits...

mmkay

 

iwojima, people, jumping at the right angle in spawn can get on top of the cliffs and run around

 

sweden, for the love of god, a map that was just recently finished, you can get on the windmill

 

do I need to bring up the problems that used to arise with golan?

 

the whole point of this is, when you're new to a game, you usually go to a large, semi-filled server to get your bearings

 

and TA is usually the big semi filled server

 

and if these new people come here, learn exploits and get banned everywhere else because pretty much everywhere else exploits are a bannable offense, not only does the poor admin that has to ban the new guy because of server rules look bad, so do you for teaching him that

 

I love you, I respect you, if I never did, I would have never joined TA in the first place, but things are getting out of hand

 

I mean, clan members openly flaunting their exploits and with step by step explanations (with pictures mind you) on how they did it

 

 

ugh

 

I need liquor

Just 3 points:

 

Wrong!

Wrong!

Wrong!

 

Servers that ban players for these so called "exploits", as well as past "Weapons" bannings have lost all but a few players that are left. If other servers keep banning people for this trivial crap, I am afraid to say that FA will be totally dead and gone for good.

 

People should stop whining about "exploits" and just play the game and have fun.

 

Also, the Armory is usually at capacity and is not notmally a "semi-filled" server.

 

Lastly, 3NF, you and Delta are both great players, so I respect your opinions. Please understand that our main goal is so that everyone has a good time. Thanks for your input.

Outstanding thread...

Outstanding thread...

Yes it is. People from different parts of the community can actually maturely (for the most part ) debate an issue with civility and thought. This is how we can improve the community and the server. Outstanding indeed.

JUST DONT EXPLOITS NUBS

]JUST DONT EXPLOITS NUBS

I never exploit nubs. I am not even sure what a nub is. Is it when someone has a limb removed, and all that is left is a "nub"?

 

Whoa, I sound like Sam.Gen now. I think I am going to go have a beer..

There are a few things I don't get here. I am gonna sound like a newb here but that is why I read the forums (too learn) Why is it bad to have a Famas and heavy armour. It's in the configuration menu so why not use it if you get an advantage. Anyone else can use it too. And this thing about circle strafing, is there some bug in the game that makes you impervious to damage or something. Circle strafing is just a technigue to avoid being shot while shooting at someone so I don't see the harm. IF there is a bug, there is nothing that can be done til it is fixed and that is that. Wait for the update to 2.9. Another thing I read was; I think from K1|Delta ( correct me if I'm wrong). He said players complain if he circles around the map and kills them from behind. That is pretty dumb, why wouldn't you circle around and not face someone head on. Only makes sense and sounds like smart tactics to me. Klink out!

Once 2.9 comes out most of the current exploits will be removed. I have worked with Mazor on 2.9 for a long time now to remove most of the exploits, if not all of them. It is very difficult for admins to know what is in fact an exploit and what is not. especially since the clanning community and players see these exploits so much more than the average gamer on the TA server. They tend to spot them out and complain about them before anyone else notices them. I feel TA does a solid job with stopping exploits and keeping the server a fair place to play. No one is perfect. Balancing this with a fluid gameplay is long and hard work. Do the best you can TA and be open to suggestions (from the correct people of course). as for you das haun, prone strafing is not an exploit in 2.8. this was more of a "feel thing" for players and was corrected in 2.9.

Fatty said:I never exploit nubs. I am not even sure what a nub is. Is it when someone has a limb removed, and all that is left is a "nub"? Klink... I like what you say. Sometimes new folk have fresh perspectives (no pun intended) on the game. You ask a good straightforward question: Why not use the configs that are AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE! It is not relying on downloaded cheats, therefore, use it!I would apply that same question and logic to any map and how it can be used BY EVERYONE! We are not talking about something that is downloaded to take unfair advantage. It is inherent in the map in the same way that configurations for skills are inherent in the design of the game!I am still learning and new to much of this but I have yet to see a map exploit that was "fool proof." Yes, it may be that a player may be killed quite often before that exploiter is killed... but I feel as long as the person exploiting the map can still be found and killed... then it is merely taking full advantage of the map not unlike using famas and full armor.

ok maybe we shouldnt be looking at "how to stop exploits", more rather "how to counter" exploits! situation 1. Player is headcamming whilst sniping, or "prone strafing (this was never a problem till 2.8 why?)"... BREAK OUT THE M79's chaps. use your frags, go a different route, use stealth skill to sneak across and get behind them.i hear people say, well i try to get behind them, i try to go a different way, but he gets me every time. YOUR BAD you are doing something wrong. i can routinely get from my base to the enemy base without being seen by another player.2. Someone is up on the wall, in an unaccessable portion of the map, only thing this affects is his score, use sigleshot, or break out teh m79 again, spam him with something. usually walls and things dont have much in the way of cover.there are NO exploits that render the person invulnerable as chappy said, (last paragraph)3. If the person is exploiting, GET BETTER AT IT THAN THEM! be there before they are!simple, 1. break out the nades and SPAM, 2 use famas (great all round weapon) 3 beat them at their own game.

as for you das haun, prone strafing is not an exploit in 2.8. this was more of a "feel thing" for players and was corrected in 2.9.

Goss, i respect you, and i respect your work. I know you busted your ass to provide CD, a better 2.9, and a number of other things. However, when Mazor claims something is an exploit, or a bug, than i don't care who else says otherwise, it IS a bug, it IS an exploit. Mazor has said it is, i'm not going to say otherwise.

 

And as for Chappy and Shotty, you're able to (at this moment) take out zoom scripts that allow you to see through walls, and kill your opponant using guns. You wouldn't ban me for having a wall hack, and a zoom script? :roll:

 

Oh, and i believe TA was one of the biggest complainers when net-tez was bringing down the TA server due to a bug in the engine that allowed it to be used. They also were the first to say something about arty crashing servers; yet they banned arty because of the bug.

 

-edit- Oh, and for anyone who wants to say mazor never claimed it was a bug:

this is for you

as for you das haun, prone strafing is not an exploit in 2.8. this was more of a "feel thing" for players and was corrected in 2.9.

 

 

Goss, i respect you, and i respect your work. I know you busted your ass to provide CD, a better 2.9, and a number of other things. However, when Mazor claims something is an exploit, or a bug, than i don't care who else says otherwise, it IS a bug, it IS an exploit. Mazor has said it is, i'm not going to say otherwise.

 

And as for Chappy and Shotty, you're able to (at this moment) take out zoom scripts that allow you to see through walls, and kill your opponant using guns. You wouldn't ban me for having a wall hack, and a zoom script? :roll:

 

Oh, and i believe TA was one of the biggest complainers when net-tez was bringing down the TA server due to a bug in the engine that allowed it to be used. They also were the first to say something about arty crashing servers; yet they banned arty because of the bug.

 

-edit- Oh, and for anyone who wants to say mazor never claimed it was a bug:

this is for you

Very nicely said

there are NO exploits that render the person invulnerable as chappy said, (last paragraph)

sure there is

in a recent situation I was in, red team was caught outside blue's tunnel because they were unable to get into the openign with a good view to their main base.

Why you ask?

Well they had at least 3 m60 gunners and m82 snipers up along the mountain side. The second you stepped out you'd die. I tried the m79 "problem fixer" many times to no success. This is unacceptable...

 

3. If the person is exploiting, GET BETTER AT IT THAN THEM! be there before they are!

Yes! Awesome! Now we have a server full of exploiting players who don't remember how to play the game correct. yes, that's the solution i think we should go with!!!!

 

the thing about exploits (by exploits, I'm cutting out strafing bug and helmcammign) is that the map maker never intended them to happen. There just happens to be a certain box that someone can get onto with good timing, but the mapper didn't want them on this box.

I say if the map maker didn't intend it (and it is fairly easy to see what the map maker didn't intend. If you need two people to get on a ridge, that is a down right bannable exploit) then you shouldn't be able to do it. Simple as that I say

 

and it doesn't matter what other people's thoughts and perspectives of 'exploits' are, this is our server, and our rules. Many people have different views on what curse words are bad and what arn't, but we still ban the vast majority of them.