bangbang Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 thoughts comments ect...i agreed with moust of it, withe the excption of the immigration policy, and th e work program, as i feel that it will open ore holes in our borders, perhaps it should ot be for illegial immigrants allready in the country but for those who are on wating lists to get in. just my opinion. also thanks for the help with my dad the topic is now open for discution ( it wasn't when i started the thread, keep it up.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangbang Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 here's a link to the transcript if you want to read it, http://abcnews.go.com/sections/US/Politics/Bush_State_of_Union_transcript_040120-1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgyver Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Please have him make a post in that thread so we may see his points of view on this game and community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateCop Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Well it is interesting to hear the "boo" from the democrats on keeping tax cuts. Just another way to show their true colors. After watching this speech and watching the reaction from Democrats I can honestly say I am VERY proud to be a member of the Republican Party and an American. I also like GW's touching on these left wing judges allowing all of these moronic ideals to be pushed forward. He stopped short of saying there should be terms put on judges but I can see it may be coming...none to soon.As for the rest I could ramble on for days how I feel Democrats are very close to communism. I think we should pay fewer taxes with less social programs and democrats want to tax you as much as possible to keep their money and dole it out to who they want to have your money....just like the USSR did with medical, food, and other services during the cold war and after. Granted the democrats have not got to that level as of yet but only because of republicans keep them in check. Again if anyone did not watch this State of the Union I strongly suggest watching it on tape if you can. Take not to who stays seated and on which topics and make your own mind up. If you are looking toward the Pres from the back the Republicans are on the far right side of the room and Dems on the left.As for the work pass program I do have a few problems with....I see his point but I think it needs some major work. I think GW knows this......[/rant]Thank you SOOOO much for opening that up for me to get this off my chest....Marshal and I didnt play tonight just so we could watch this! I had things to say and my wife had heard my rants all she could stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Democrats are Communists? How low can my friends from the right go? Well, at least we will get to see EPISODE III Read the fine print at the bottom http://www.fa-thearmory.net/albums/album02/phantom_menace.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateCop Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 HAhahaha....Good one Gator!I am talking from an ideals stand point of the party not about the war. Just the social programs....more taxes? We need more? Most of us pay 33% or more. Why not 90% and let the feds tell us who to work for or if he can have children. I am not as much a republican as I am a big time conservative. My conservative views just seem to be aligned with that of the more right leaning part of the republican party. The war is another story....Dems views on Daddy's War are just propaganda because they cant come up with a good reason not to keep tax cuts our president pushed through among other social factors. As for my Democrats = Communist ...that is mostly directed toward the far left.... I guess I should have clarified. The other not so left leaning are more socialist. Me on the other hand am about as far to the capitalist side as you can get. Something about working for what you get rings close to my heart not to mention views I hold close from my religion.Not to mention my views against:Gun control (that does not even work)Abortion (I am not one of those pro-life extremist..just think it is wrong)Same sex weddings / allowed insurance Taxes to fund social programs for people that do not want to workWeak defence spending by the democrats (a proven historical fact)These are the basics of a conservative....which Bush falls into most of the above things I support. I will say that he drifts to the middle on some issues like our borders. I am a stern critic of Bush on the part of leaving our border unprotected. That policy is not that of true conservative, but hey 1 or 2 bad points beats left wing people like Dean who support everything I am against...not to mention all but saying we should wave teh white flag when faced with an enemy of our country.PS.. Mr Bangbang please note my original post in your other thread....as you can can see Gator and I disagree on heated issues such as these but are still friends. We just keep each other in check and get some good laughs. You can show your dad this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifrit Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 personaly i think ur way wrong state cuz the best thing that has happened for the state of south dakota is to elect a democrat cuz as soon as dashle made majority leader he helped the state get more funding for schools and other non profit programs to help kids. once bush took office we had to have a opt out just to be able to buy more books for students and build a new school. so i don't agree with some of the things they want to do but they still make some good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I agree with Bush's conservative views, but the thing I have against most immigration policy ideas is that it seems that the sons and daughters of immigrants are trying to keep other immigrants out. Never mind that back in the day, America would take in just about anybody. Never mind that the majority of immigrants that come here are actually productive members of society who pay taxes. Granted that undocumented immigration is illegal, people should also be just as adamant in enforcing the other laws we have on the books. Why not be as picky about speed limits or other laws that seem to have "grey" areas? The immigrants that do come here and leech off of welfare are no worse than the U.S. citizens that do the same. And don't even get me started on welfare. :wink: Those were my 5 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateCop Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 -IFRIT||SGT.||]personaly i think ur way wrong state cuz the best thing that has happened for the state of south dakota is to elect a democrat cuz as soon as dashle made majority leader he helped the state get more funding for schools and other non profit programs to help kids. once bush took office we had to have a opt out just to be able to buy more books for students and build a new school. so i don't agree with some of the things they want to do but they still make some good points. You are talking about state level programs for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enders Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 State of the Union=Speech made to make George W. Bush sound like he's thinking about something besides his ranch in Texas(hehe ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strobes Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 -IFRIT||SGT.||]personaly i think ur way wrong state cuz the best thing that has happened for the state of south dakota is to elect a democrat cuz as soon as dashle made majority leader he helped the state get more funding for schools and other non profit programs to help kids. once bush took office we had to have a opt out just to be able to buy more books for students and build a new school. so i don't agree with some of the things they want to do but they still make some good points. Lets not forget that there is seperation of church and school right. But its ok for the government to be involved?????? How about our States handle money the way they should be and take care of the schools not the Feds. When my mother and dad went to school there were no school funding problems and they bought there books on there own. And I know some people can't afford books but the gov. should get with (the people) and deal with the money.The city where I live just built a new school Gym, Library, and renovated the football stadium at a great cost and the people paid for it not the gov.. Lets not let the counties, cities, and the states put money in their pockets , lets make them use it where they are told to in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateCop Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Amen brother Strobes! People paying their own way in life and less taxes....wow what a concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadRoach Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I've got very wierd view, but consider myself a "Moderate Conservative" because while my views are mostly conservative, I keep an open mind and am not afraid to see another viewpoint.Communism - An idealistic society where everybody works to the best of their ability, pools all their money into one pot, then has it given out to everybody equally. Nice system, but always doomed to fail due to the inherant lazy and greedy nature of mankind. The later days of the USSR proved that. Workers would work feverishly in the early part of their day to make their state mandated quota, then stop working because working any harder wouldn't get them any extra money. Greater rewards usually results in peaple working harder. This is why Capitalism works.Anyway, my views usually fall like this...National Defense : Dems for some reason like to cut our defense spending. I can't stand for this! I cannot fathom why somebody would want to weaken a nation when you have dangerous despots out there who would love to take a free shot at anybody who looks weak.Gun Control : Well, other than the obvious... which is criminals will always get around the gun laws leaving those of us who follow the law defensless against them if we're not armed... there's this little thing called the second amendment. I don't think many peaple realise that if the peaple don't have a means to fight against their own corrupt government, that governement will be free to take away their other rights. I mean, if they take away our right to bear arms, what is keeping them from removing the freedom of religion or press?Separation of church and state : This is where I bang my head in the wall in frustration because of some of my fellow republicans. 10 commandments should be written in your heart, not on some graven image in a building paid by taxes. Keep religion out of our government establishment, but allow the peaple to do what they will on their own property.Abortion : This one tears at my heart in ways I can't explain. In my eyes, if you stand by and allow the blood of innocent lives be shed and you don't do a thing, you are just as guilty as the murderer. This is why I'm not pro-choice. But, this is a decision that tears at me... because I feel for these women... I really do. But, I feel we'd be better served trying to find a way to make Abortion unnecesary. And this is how I conflict with your traditional conservative, TEACH BIRTH CONTROL TO OUR KIDS! Let's not fool ourselves... No matter what you believe, natural forces are telling our teenagers it's time to mate. And it's a shame our society does not prepare them to be adults at that age like it should be. They are gonna be tempted... they are going to do it. THEY SHOULD BE INFORMED. Less unwanted children this world has, the less Abortions there will be. I'd much rather teach my son how to use a condom than have the life of whatever unborn child he's sired on my hands.Taxes : I don't know why Democrats feel that they know how to spend my own money better than I do. Quite frankly, I spend my money better and most politicians do. Both sides mispend, but Republicans take less.Bush himself... I've had mixed feelings about him. I feel he lied to me about Iraq. WHERE ARE THE DAMN WMD? I can forgive him for that, as we removed a guy from power who really needed to be removed. If he had told me he was going in for that, hell, I would of supported it. I just hate being misled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 You did very unwisely by putting such a topic where i can read it and reply to it. But i am giving you a chance of repairing that mistake. Dont take too much though, for i am boiling here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateCop Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Was it the part about the USSR falling to the ground? That is what happens when the gov. gets almost all of your money and spends it how they see fit. I am not so far right that to think there can be a nation with not taxes. I know we need taxes for such things as military and limited social programs (LIMITED being the key word). Ky do you not feel that it is better for the people to spend their money rather than have the powers that be take it and do what they want with it? I just dont get it I guess.Ky, in the past have you not said people were better off under communism? If not I am sorry....I just thought you said something along those lines before. If so which party would you feel the most like what you would support IF you were in this country? What are your thoughts from and outside view on our social programs ( I know you hate Bush) but I mean on a larger scale than one man....our parties and policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotty Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 rofl you think you got it hard, try our taxes. (although our labour promised cuts) we are paying 81.9p per litre of fuel, (works out at approx $1.40 a litre) and 78% of that price is tax. on top of that VAT is 17.5%and then to rub it in totally now that i am over the lower earnings limit for this year and am paying near on 55% of my earnings in tax (that comes straight out of my wages so i dont see a penny) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangbang Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 OUCH!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I think the democrats are funny. You should listen to em' Squabbling amongst themselves, creating such deep divisions that when its all said and done the winning presidential candidate will have only his supporters to rely on for a vote. When Dean got the lead, the other candidates dragged him down, now Kerry has the lead, not for long, soon the other candidates will drag him down as well. Eventually one of them will win, but their supporters will so deeply divided within their own party that the democrats will basically become a bunch of squabbling factions (The dean faction, the kerry faction, etc.). They will never beat Bush that way, and thank God for it to. I think bush has more intelligence than people give him credit for, and I admire his testicular fortitude in gutting it out in Iraq and proving all the critics wrong (OK, jury still out on WMD, but think about it, if the Iraqis could literally bury their airforce in the sand, how hard do you think it would be to walk out into the middle of the desert and dig a hole and dump all ones WMD in it. No one would EVER find them). I also find it funny that the econmoy is growing faster than it has in 20 years, jobs are growing, etc. and yet the dems are still desperately clinging to the economy as some sort of rotted wooden campaign plank. However, I must say that I think the economy behaves as it has since our country was founded, a cycle of endless booms and busts that occur regardless of what an administration does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Where are the WMDs? How about the fact that we gave Iraq months to comply with UN weapons inspectors. Any regime like their old one could have easily hidden them well. Never mind that they have large desert areas in which they can hide stuff. And also...abstinence is the key. If people used their brains and didn't act like animals, then there wouldn't be so great a problem with abortions and illegitimate births as well as STDs. Oh well, people will still do whatever they want disregarding the consequences anyway. I don't like political parties. Our founding fathers told us two things that we have ignored: 1) Avoid the evil that is in factions (ie political parties) and 2) Avoid intangling alliances (word of advice from George Washington). And this nation needs to stop being a welfare state. Government was made to insure our liberties, but it has impeded a lot on them ever since FDR and his "New Deal" Programs. Also, when you make it a hassle for the average law-abiding citizen to get a gun, you give the criminal element the advantage. I can't stand what a liberal interpretation of the Constitution has done to this nation. [And don't get me started on the Supreme Court (it's not right for an unelected body to pass rulings that act as laws). That's why we vote for members of Congress, so that the people are represented in the legislative process. The Supreme Court has become an unelected legislative body and the system of checks and balances has been compromised.]My 5 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappy Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Yes, The Judean/Christian God IS political... When Moses went to Pharaoh, he did not go with blankets and canned foods! Rather he said, "Let my people go!!!" He said this in the political center of the capital city. God, I believe, wants us to do essentially 3 things in life: to act with justice, to love (our neighbor as ourselves), and to walk humbly (wisdom) before God and all creation (see Micah Chapter 6). Jesus, of course, confronted the unjust practices of the world's great 2 powers, religion (i.e. The Temple Practices and Pharisees/Scribes) and politics (Herod/Pilate/etc.) and embodied the prophets Micah's recipe of a Godly life. Jesus demanded justice for the poor and outcast (see Luke Chapters 2-4). He also demanded followers to give all (possessions) for The Way of life that leads to justice and servanthood (see story of the Rich Young Ruler Mark chapter 19, Luke 18, Matthew 19, Book of Acts Chapter 2 and story of the Tax Collector Zacchaeus Luke Chapter 19). I ask a question of a so-called "Christian" nation: are we living out Jesus sermon on Beatitudes? I think we have "spiritualized" the Bible (Old and New Testaments) to death to the point where we have forgotten that it is a collection of books that speak about real people oppressed by real egos of power both religious and political. We have forgotten that Jesus himself was crucified at the hands of political and religious greed and power. In the ancient world resources were considered limited. Therefore, anyone with wealth was considered suspect because it was assumed that in a world of limited resources someone had to be defrauded or oppressed in order for another to assume/hoard more than what he/she needed to live by. I'm afraid that our nation's political/economic/religious "playing field" favor's those who fear of losing their wealth and power. It is a nation that puts the individual above the community (Jesus certainly did not see this as justice, heck even our present day military is closer to this ideal than our nation's leaders!) I believe that we, as a nation, will be judged ultimately by how we treat the "least of these" in our midst: the hungry, the thirsty, the homeless, the suffering, the alien (immigrant?)... see Matthew 25:31 and following) Faith and "belief" is hollow and useless if it is not lived in acts of justice and love (see James chapter 2). So I ask: Is "privatizing" welfare an act of justice for the community or for the individual? Is our neighbor's need a part of this policy?(BTW- if this policy had passed before the stock downturn 2 years ago, my mother (Soc. Sec. dependent) would be in a homeless shelter)So I ask: Is God all about "individual rights" over and against the rights of all of God's children and creation everywhere? So I ask: Is being right all about walking by and leaving behind those physically and economically "dead" in the ditch of our society? (See the parable of the Good Samaritan for the answer here. Luke chapter 10)The problem, as I see it, is that we have become a nation that is all about "me." 8) Yes, we must be responsible and accountable to self, but God (I believe) was about the "other" and when the "neighbor" (metaphor for all others other than myself) is not cared for, included in the justice and prosperity of the collective whole,.... then we are corrupt and most surely to be pitied among nations.As for history, it is ironic that the same financial and economic policies that led our nation into The Great Depression are substantially the same (in philosophy and practice) as the present day Republican plan. :shock: It was the practice of private industry that helped induce the catastrophe of the late 20's and the decade of the 30's. (yes, the rest of world was hurting too, but the Republican policies did nothing to stymie the local situation, but fed into it)When industry and private corporations are not able (or willing) to help when 25% of the workforce is unemployed, who then helps??? :roll: That is why FDR was elected FOUR times, because he (especially in first two elections, war years are up to debate) acted for the good of all and not just for some (by the way, justice is NOT "just us!"I'm not sure Wal-Mart (Republican poster child of corporate economic success) is anything to brag about. As a former employee, they are the largest and most successful retailer IN THE WORLD! :shock: They also pay poverty wages to working poor/elderly while the fat cats in Arkansas get richer. Hell, they even demand you pay homage to non-union policies (or they will not hire you!). How's that for "freedom."???Naw, I'm disgusted with politics. I don't even listen to the messages anymore because I think they took a copy of one speech 30 years ago and just keep repeating it over and over and over... nothing new. Us vs Them... sad.When I see a picture of the earth from space I do not see borders, political parties or divided/segmented residential areas. Maybe we need to understand and see policy from THAT perspective!One last ting (not really): our "liberal" press needs to do what they did to President Carter in the Hostage Crisis. Ted Copple comes on and says, "Nightline: Day 324: Where's The WMD?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Right on! chaplain_joe_black. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamikaze Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 -ClaymoreCarl]What I don't understand is a ex-Army General running as a democrat? Isn't that an oxymoron? I haven't followed politics too closely over the years, but I do have the feeling that the Republicans have more of an interest in my well-being (as long as I am in the Army at least). oxymoron involving the military, hmmm Military Intelligence one last thing, what Army actually stands for Aren't Really Men Yet Air Force wuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSAENOTSOCK Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Burrrrrn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifrit Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 if u saw my last post u would understand because it involves bush's no child left behind act that he put in place and it is not a state problem it is a federal problem. south dakota has one of the top education progarms in the US. if u look at the no child left behind act its sopose to help kids and still bush's home state failed at it. so i can see where bush gets his stupidity at. and for all the republicans on this site ur not going to win in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangbang Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 -IFRIT||SGT.||] for all the republicans on this site ur not going to win in 2004. the dems arn't going to win they r too divided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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